Pump Rifles in SASS

[Waimea]

Looking to shake it up a bit.

Talk to me about pump Rifles.

I know, they're tomato stakes.

I also have seen some good ones run. They are fast!

I have a Winchester .22 that I absolutely love. Unfortunately I can't use it except locally where I can bend the rules.

So tell me about your experiences.

Good or bad.

[Sedalia Dave]

Set up properly they are a wonder to shoot.  They do take some practice to slam fire while staying on the target.

 

One pard here shoots one that was set up by Lassiter and it is smooth and fast. 

[Hashknife Cowboy]

Tried...spent a small fortune on 3 different rifles and finally settled on a 1873 lever gun.

[Yul Lose]

I like Pedersoli Lightnings in 44-40 with Lassiter Slam Fire mods. If you get a Lightning PM Roger Rapid and ask him for his Lightning manual, you’ll be glad you did.

[DeaconKC]

9 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

I like Pedersoli Lightnings in 44-40 with Lassiter Slam Fire mods. If you get a Lightning PM Roger Rapid and ask him for his Lightning manual, you’ll be glad you did.

Have you had good or bad luck with other cartridges?

[Yul Lose]

6 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

Have you had good or bad luck with other cartridges?

I’ve tried them in .45 but didn’t like the blowback and the action got much dirtier than with 44-40. 

[Irish Pat]

A hundred years ago our grandfathers figured out levers go on rifles and Pumps on shotguns. Irish ☘️ Pat

[Doc Fill 'Em 67797]

If pump rifles were the hot ticket everyone would use them. They are cool, when they work. Most of them don’t. Get a nice ‘73, put a short stroke kit in it and be done. 

[watab kid]

i know someone that has three - only one ever even worked for a short time , i love the concept but only found it applicable in the shotgun arena 

[Tn Tombstone]

I like my 45 but sold my 38, however, the folks that bought the 38 love it. The weight on the 45 keeps the tip down for me where as the 38 tended to stovepipe if I pushed it too hard.  They are great guns for Outlaw if you can control the blowback.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

There's a young lady in Alabama (Russell County Regulators) that runs a pump gun and she makes it sing!

No, I don't know what kind or who worked on it.

[Waimea]

Thanks for your answers.

To be clear I have a '73.

I love it.

Just looking for more options and fun.

 

 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Be fun to watch you run a pump from the hip... Ya Outlaw! 

[Waimea]

1 hour ago, Tn Tombstone said:

I like my 45 but sold my 38, however, the folks that bought the 38 love it. The weight on the 45 keeps the tip down for me where as the 38 tended to stovepipe if I pushed it too hard.  They are great guns for Outlaw if you can control the blowback.

 

Thanks Tombstone.

"38 tended to stovepipe" is what I have heard the big complaint is.

 

Me: looking forward to Black Gold, maybe too much.

[Waimea]

6 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Be fun to watch you run a pump from the hip... Ya Outlaw! 

 

Haha!

In the opening scene of the Rifleman what they don't show is Chuck Connors dodging spent shells. I had one hit me in the front tooth. 

It isn't all glamour being an Outlaw!

[Dantankerous]

I bought a Pedersoli 44-40 on the wire maybe 18 months ago. Fantastic rifle, easy to operate, accurate. I've shot it twice at matches... great fun. I'd shoot it more but for the CC category restriction.

 

Go for it!

[Tn Tombstone]

1 hour ago, Waimea said:

 

 

Me: looking forward to Black Gold, maybe too much.

Me too brother, I will be glad to bring mine to BG if you want to give it a try.

[Cemetery]

1 hour ago, Waimea said:

Just looking for more options and fun.

 

 

99.9% of the time, the path to pump rifles is a one way route to shattered dreams, broken hearts, and empty wallets.

[Waimea]

21 minutes ago, Tn Tombstone said:

Me too brother, I will be glad to bring mine to BG if you want to give it a try.

 

I would love that.

Thank you!

[Dantankerous]

55 minutes ago, Cemetery said:

 

99.9% of the time, the path to pump rifles is a one way route to shattered dreams, broken hearts, and empty wallets.

 

Naw... You're describing the '87 lever shotgun.

[Frontier Lone Rider]

I had one in stainless which worked flawlessly, but it was a 45LC.  The 45LC spits in your face where the bottle necked ones don't.  If it had been a 44-40, I would still be shooting it.

 

The folks that bought it love it.

 

Lassiter not only works on these pump rifles, he shoots one and makes it sing.

 

FLR

[Outlaw Gambler]

Howdy Waimea, I guess Gamblers Gal and I are exceptions as we have no problems with our pump rifles. However, I did a lot of trial and error with a lot of the early ones and it seemed that no matter what was fixed it the problems persisted. After I walked away from them I became aware that my wife was struggling a bit with the 73 lever. So I picked up a Colt lightning pump in 32-20 and sent it to Eldon Penner for an over haul. When I got it back I couldn't beleive how well it ran. The first match I took it to had a speed target for rifles, I was amazed at how fast it ran. It is a long barrel and too long for her and I did not want to cut it. So, I purchased two others and sent them to Eldon and when they came back they were/are replicas of the baby lightning. I gave one to my wife and she liked it because it was lighter, a shorter stroke to cycle vs the lever gun, 32-20 had hardly any recoil. As she became comfortable with it she loves the slam fire aspect. She has shot it for more years than I can remember but at least 7 or 8 without anything but a cleaning. She won the Wisconsin State Championship with it. I have shot mine less that she shoots hers but mine runs just fine with no problems when I do shoot it. Also a 32-20.

To make a long story longer, any original - not Uberti, Norinco, etc, will require some work to be able to be used in CAS. A gun set up by a qualified smith will not only work good, but will work good for a long period of time. A Colt Lightnig is a fun gun to shoot.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

The Few.  The Proud.  The Lucky.  There are only a couple of Gunplumbers who can make the reproduction Lightnings work.  Note, I said "work."  Not necessarily "run."  Pedersoli makes the only "good" reproduction Lightning.  The others are primarily garbage and will cost an arm and a leg before you "give up" on them.

 

Biggest mistake anyone can make is to buy one in 45 Colt.  Way too much Blow-By unless you anneal the cases.  .38 is right behind.  44-40, 38-40 and 32-20 are better choices, but again, only in a Pedersoli and only if you want to invest heavily to get them to run.

[Waimea]

1 hour ago, Dantankerous said:

 

Naw... You're describing the '87 lever shotgun.

I was thinking about one of them too.

Kinda like the goofy backward Outlaw.

Pump rifle 

Lever shotgun.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

The only pump rifle that has any traction in SASS is the Colt Lightning. So what can I say about the Lightning?

 

 A few years ago, when there was much speculation about the gun, I decided that I wanted to have one, "just to have one."  I never even contemplated that it would supplant my beloved Winchesters as my favorite type of gun.

I was very lucky to go to a store that had a Taurus, a Beretta, and an AWA, all in .45 Colt.  The Taurus had an action that felt like sliding 2 pieces of sandpaper together.  The Beretta was smoother, but clunky, and the AWA was smooth as silk.  I bought the AWA.  It has become my favorite main match rifle.   I soon said that if I ever found an AWA in .44-40, I'd buy it.  I did.   That was only the beginning...

 

From top to bottom...

 

Colt, Large Frame .45-70.

AWA .45 Colt

Colt .44-40, Costa Rica surplus.
AWA .44-40

Colt .32-20
Colt, Small Frame, .22 Long
AWA Lightning Bolt Pistol, 45 Colt.

The Lightning Bug, once it bites you, holds on to you hard!   From my experience, AWA's and Colts are good guns.  Those are what I own.  

Taurus has a reputation for being crud.
Pedersoli has a reputation for being great.
USFA, Uberti have a mixed reputation.  (So do Colt and AWA, but I've been lucky with them.)

None of these guns have given me trouble, except as follows.   After many years of use, the AWA broke something internally.   The Large Frame had a similar problem.  Lassiter was able to fix both them for me, no problem.  As others have said, he's the go to guy for the Lightning.

I will soon have another one in .44 Special, but that's a long story that I won't comment on until I have it.

Anyway, I think Lightnings are great.   To this day, they remain the only gun type that I have shot a clean match with, including End of the Trail.

 

[Waimea]

So far, you love them or you hate them.

 

Kinda like boats.

Today I am working on mine and I hate it.

[Preacherman]

Hey, that means that Realtree needs one for his "gunboat"!!

[Cypress Sun]

4 hours ago, Cemetery said:

 

99.9% of the time, the path to pump rifles is a one way route to shattered dreams, broken hearts, and empty wallets.

 

Ah...on the Hollywood Boulevard of pump rifles.

[Cypress Sun]

Years ago, the Lightning go to guy was Deadeye Dallas. He asked me to try out his work. Prior to this, I'd never tried a Lightning before. The only other Lightning I'd ever seen work reliably was Pistol Packin Peanuts rifle which she worked pretty damn good. After this video, I asked Dallas if he'd sell it, answer was no.

 

If you get one Waimea, you might want to contact Lassiter 1st to check on parts availability, make and model. Personally, I think an Outlaw shooting a Lightning in the Outlaw fashion would be cool as it could be.

 

Me with a Deadeye Dallas Lightning.

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

If SASS is your hobby and you buy a Lightning you will then have two hobbies.  I have 18 or so of them and have been shooting them since 2000.  The biggest problem is parts.  Colt, USFA, AWA, Taurus are long gone and there are no parts.  Theoretically Uberti and Pedersoli are still making Lightnings but I have waited for over two years for parts from both companies.  Right now my main match gun is a modified 1st gen Uberti in .357.

 

[Waimea]

31 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

Years ago, the Lightning go to guy was Deadeye Dallas. He asked me to try out his work. Prior to this, I'd never tried a Lightning before. The only other Lightning I'd ever seen work reliably was Pistol Packin Peanuts rifle which she worked pretty damn good. After this video, I asked Dallas if he'd sell it, answer was no.

 

If you get one Waimea, you might want to contact Lassiter 1st to check on parts availability, make and model. Personally, I think an Outlaw shooting a Lightning in the Outlaw fashion would be cool as it could be.

 

Me with a Deadeye Dallas Lightning.

 

 

 

See? Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about.

Tell you the truth I thought you would be the first or second one here telling me to run for my life.

[Waimea]

16 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

If SASS is your hobby and you buy a Lightning you will then have two hobbies.  I have 18 or so of them and have been shooting them since 2000.  The biggest problem is parts.  Colt, USFA, AWA, Taurus are long gone and there are no parts.  Theoretically Uberti and Pedersoli are still making Lightnings but I have waited for over two years for parts from both companies.  Right now my main match gun is a modified 1st gen Uberti in .357.

 

 

Thanks for your insight Larson.

May I ask what parts seem to be the most problematic?

[Cypress Sun]

16 minutes ago, Waimea said:

 

See? Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about.

Tell you the truth I thought you would be the first or second one here telling me to run for my life.

 

Found out a long time ago that telling people that they shouldn't (fill in the blank) do is like putting a newly paved quarter mile of race track in front of Don Garlits and telling him to take it easy on the car.

[Waimea]

19 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Found out a long time ago that telling people that they shouldn't (fill in the blank) do is like putting a newly paved quarter mile of race track in front of Don Garlits and telling him to take it easy on the car.

 

I'm not like that.

I carefully weigh all my options THEN I drive off a cliff.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

39 minutes ago, Waimea said:

May I ask what parts seem to be the most problematic?

 

When there are virtually no parts they all become problematic.  Some vary by brand.  For example a real weak point in the Uberti is the locking lugs.  On the Colt this is a very substantial piece.  Uberti decided to put a pin in place of two screws that retain the carrier and to accomdate the pin they had to make to locking lug leg far narrower from front to back and had to put a curve in it to go around the pin.  The leg can snap off and finding a new locking lug can be a big problem.  (They break at the red arrow.)  I finally put an internal stop inside the pump so it would stop going forward about .005" before the lugs bottomed out in the receiver.  That eliminated the stress and breakage.  (So far.   )