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Blood Lead Levels


Lawdog Dago Dom

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Last October my BLL peaked at a 9.

Ouch. 

Knowing that Gunshot Residue (GSR) generates an approximate 3 foot sphere of lead primer residue (primers used to be mercury compounds-changed to lead based compounds for "health" reasons) I focused on the GSR I knew I was bringing home with me; fired cases.

 

I had stored fired cases in uncovered cardboard drums inside the building where I have my reloading room. I moved the drums outside where they were protected from rain, but in the breeze. Fired brass was in 5 gallon pails outside with screw lids from Amazon. Thinking that fired shotgun shells were the biggest culprit (biggest primer-biggest shell) I started to deprime shells outside, then toss into a soapy car wash/wax solution, rinse and dry. Brass cases were deprimed indoors, but I wore an industrial respirator and made sure there was good air movement in the room. Deprimed brass went right into the wet tumbler. Surgical gloves worn handling all fired cases. Hand washing along with lead wipes around my mouth/nose after I was done. The "brass" bag, that collects cases after every stage, was also moved outside to enjoy the breeze.

 

I continued to take my Centrum Silver in the morning along with two Hawaiian Spirulina tablets at night (good tip from Kid Rich).

 

All shell loading procedures remained the same, using coated and non-coated bullets and lead shot.

 

My BLL dropped nearly in half in four months to a 5 ! And this was doing a ton of reloading during the winter months.

 

It was the fired cases after all.

 

Stay healthy my friends!

 

LDD

 

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4 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

LOL. 9  is nothing.  Mine peaked at 36 a few years back.  Better hand washing after matches and wet tumbling got me down to a 14 the last time I had it checked.

Doctor said at 10 and above they have to notify public health officials.

I'm trying to avoid government agencies.

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6.7 a month or so ago. I've been cleaning lots of brass since last fall.  Getting tested again at my appointment in August. 

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Just got my lead test in February........4.2

Down from five years earlier........4.3

Dry tumble, then leave in a media sifter tray after recovering media until I get 1,000 or so to reload (about 6-8weeks depending on season, practice, extra matches etc.)

Deprime on the machine. Finishing off the last of my uncoated lead bullets then on to coated versions. (might as well play sort of safe)

I do not wear gloves or mask. I run the timer at most matches I attend, pick brass, set targets etc.

I do not eat or drink in the man cave........ ever!

I do wash my hands and face every time I leave the man cave.

I do sift the media from the cases outside unless it is cold, windy, rainy or snowing and replace it when it starts to take more than two hours to reach my acceptable clean.

My doctor told me he has seen triple my levels in people who shoot and reload less than 25% of what I do. It is his OPINION that some people accumulate lead much more easily than others and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. I asked about reporting high levels (I live in Colorado) and that was news to him and he would research it. Haven't heard back so don't know.

Seems crazy to me why some folks levels skyrocket while doing all the supposed to be right things, (wet tumble, avoid timer, brass picking, wear masks and gloves etc.) and others don't seem to have that much of a problem.

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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11 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

LOL. 9  is nothing.  Mine peaked at 36 a few years back.  Better hand washing after matches and wet tumbling got me down to a 14 the last time I had it checked.

 

11 hours ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said:

Doctor said at 10 and above they have to notify public health officials.

I'm trying to avoid government agencies.

This must be a different system, mine was at 24 and after I quit working part time at a gun shop/range it went down to 14 then 12 last it was checked. My doc said 40 is the level where you have to start doing something. 

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I read an article a decade ago that eating raw onions helps remove heavy metals from the system. I also read that high lead levels has been linked to dementia.

 

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Normal Results

Small amounts of lead in adults are not thought to be harmful. However, even low levels of lead can be dangerous to infants and children. It can cause lead poisoning that leads to problems in mental development.

Adults:

  • Less than 10 micrograms per deciliter (µg/dL) or 0.48 micromoles per liter (µmol/L) of lead in the blood

Children:

  • Less than 5 µg/dL or 0.24 µmol/L of lead in the blood

Normal value ranges may vary slightly among different laboratories. Talk to your health care provider about the meaning of your specific test results.

What Abnormal Results Mean

In adults, a blood lead level of 5 µg/dL or 0.24 µmol/L or above is considered elevated. Treatment may be recommended if:

  • Your blood lead level is greater than 80 µg/dL or 3.86 µmol/L.
  • You have symptoms of lead poisoning and your blood lead level is greater than 40 µg/dL or 1.93 µmol/L.

In children:

  • Blood lead level of 5 µg/dL or 0.24 µmol/L or greater requires further testing and monitoring.
  • The source of lead must be found and removed.
  • A lead level greater than 45 µg/dL or 2.17 µmol/L in a child's blood most often indicates the need for treatment.
  • Treatment may be considered with a level as low as 20 µg/dL or 0.97 µmol/
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12 hours ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said:

Doctor said at 10 and above they have to notify public health officials.

I'm trying to avoid government agencies.

I believe at one point my lead level was above 20 and I got the a letter from the state asking my questions about my work environment and how I might have been exposed to that much lead.  I threw it out and never heard from the state again.

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At one point mine was in the 40s.  I have it down under 10 now.  Yes, I had calls from the State Health Department.  I refused to discuss it with them and they eventually went away. I think the primary cause was shooting and instructing indoors.  Now when I shoot indoors, I wear a respirator style mask.  When I get home from the range, clothing goes directly into the washer.  For reloading I've gone to wet tumbling.  At the reloading table, I'm using coated bullets.  I did note a slight uptick when I started TOing. 

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Just had mine checked, it was an 8. Doc seemed to not be concerned. I melt scrap lead, pour at least four calibers, RO, and dry tumble. Just bought a big box of nitrate gloves I'll wear when cleaning guns. Keeps my hands soft;):lol:

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The more overweight you are is also a factor as my doc said !!  Fat absorbs lead.

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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The more overweight you are is also a factor as my doc said !!  Fat absorbs lead.

 

No wonder my butt feels so heavy when I am running to the next gun in the firing sequence.

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What symptoms made you guys do a level check? Or just a preventative check? I’m switching to as many coated bullets for our game as I can. If you don’t want to publicly answer me about symptoms you can message me. I’ve gone back to walnut media. Tried wet tumbling it’s not for me. Maybe I will try ultrasonic next.

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7 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

What symptoms made you guys do a level check? Or just a preventative check? I’m switching to as many coated bullets for our game as I can. If you don’t want to publicly answer me about symptoms you can message me. I’ve gone back to walnut media. Tried wet tumbling it’s not for me. Maybe I will try ultrasonic next.

I had no symptoms but I was talking to my doctor who also was a shooter (I don't have him anymore he moved) he asked if I ever had my lead levels checked. I was working part time at a gun shop/Range and cleaning up the range was the culprit. My lead level was 23. After I stopped working there my LL dropped to 12. Last time I had it checked it was 9. 

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8 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

What symptoms made you guys do a level check? .

 

My curiosity.  I was melting lead outside and casting bullets inside during the winter months.  When I went in for my annual 10 year physical I asked the Doctor to check it.  I forgot the number but the Doctor said it was high.  I checked on Al Bore's Internet when I got home, high for a teenager (which I ain't) but towards the high in range of average for an old man (which I am).

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8 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

What symptoms made you guys do a level check? Or just a preventative check? I’m switching to as many coated bullets for our game as I can. If you don’t want to publicly answer me about symptoms you can message me. I’ve gone back to walnut media. Tried wet tumbling it’s not for me. Maybe I will try ultrasonic next.

No outward symptoms for me or Shortcake. It was mostly done out of curiousity and caution due to the sheer volume of ammo fired and subsequently reloaded. I just felt it was something I'd like to know before it grew into a bigger health issue.

 

Lead/coated bullet handling is not the culprit here. It is the fine, microscopic lead particles that are released when primer compounds are fired, And it goes everywhere.

 

If you cannot wet tumble you must look at ways to handle the fired cases that have this stuff on them. Water is a quick way to do it, but perhaps others have better suggestions.

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9 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

What symptoms made you guys do a level check? Or just a preventative check? I’m switching to as many coated bullets for our game as I can. If you don’t want to publicly answer me about symptoms you can message me. I’ve gone back to walnut media. Tried wet tumbling it’s not for me. Maybe I will try ultrasonic next.

It gets checked annually during my physical.  Never been higher than 5...  but, I've always worn nitrile gloves when handling cases from the tumbler or vibratory cleaner.  Same when reloading and sorting.  Washing hands after handling any ammo and always before eating.  

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10 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

What symptoms made you guys do a level check? 

 

I never had any symptoms of lead poisoning, still don't. I was curious about it, so I asked for it while they were drawing blood for the normal "got to have a blood draw so I can renew prescriptions" pretense.

 

Mine was a 14 the last time. I'm not worried about a 14. 

 

I dry tumble with walnut (lizard litter) and a brass cleaner/polish, wear gloves during the process and a respirator during the separation process.

 

Mine has been as high as a 24. During that time, I was very active as a TO and other posse duties and close to the firing line. I firmly believe that frequent close proximity to the line and inhalation of the associated ground dust/smoke/etc. contributes to higher lead levels.

 

Lead cannot be absorbed through the skin, it must be ingested either orally or inhaled. I try to "prudently" try to limit my exposure to it as much as possible during a match or other shooting...but there's only so much that can be done within reason.

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 Eat healthy NO processed foods, eat onions ,Garlic Cabbage Broccoli ,Cauliflower. Eat Cilantro, take vitamin C

 

I have a level of 2-3 and eat in my reloading room ,dry tumble the cases etc. It is all about eating a healthy diet. Very simple  and not rocket science.

 

Best wishes

 

TJB

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16 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

What symptoms made you guys do a level check? Or just a preventative check? I’m switching to as many coated bullets for our game as I can. If you don’t want to publicly answer me about symptoms you can message me. I’ve gone back to walnut media. Tried wet tumbling it’s not for me. Maybe I will try ultrasonic next.

I never had symptoms that I could say were directly related to lead (though I wouldn't be surprised if symptoms my docs relate to other causes might not be related).  I became aware of lead levels years ago when I was a police firearms instructor, and a range was shut down.  Lead testing was mandated, and I was put on the shelf for awhile.  Within the last 15 years, I've insisted that it be an annual part of the blood tests taken for my annual physicals.

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7 hours ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said:

It is the fine, microscopic lead particles that are released when primer compounds are fired

 

4 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

close proximity to the line and inhalation of the associated ground dust/smoke/etc

 

My belief is another major contribution to inhalation is lead dust/spray off of shotgun targets.  We shoot shotguns at hard targets closer than just about any other sport.   I can see the gray cloud that comes off the target faces when shooters connect.   The shot payloads (3/4 to 1 ounce, or 324 to 438 grains) are  5 times what our lead bullets weigh, amount to  1/5th of the shot counts of our bullets, but most of the shot pellets disintegrate rather than show up on the ground.

 

good luck, GJ

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The only time mine went up to 11 was smelting old plumbing lead into ingots and got in the way of the smoke, even with a N95 mask! Went back to 5 in about 6 months. Never seen a change with brass cleaning or loading. Only wear a mask to dump in the separator.  Now doing wet tumble. I have always soaked my brass in 50/50 Simple Green though B4 tumbling. Using coated bullets now as well. Only testing for lead once a year now. Doc didn't seem concerned when it jumped to 11.

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I agree with the observation about the shotgun targets. Lots of caked up stuff on them. We have these hooks to reset them. I’m going to start carrying some gloves in my kit though. They still have to be handled at some point. Good observation about water cleaning.  This is a good thread. 

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To chime in on possible symptoms.

I had no symptoms that I observed.

My doctor is a fellow IDPA shooter who I have had a relationship with of about 7 years. He still wears a mask at most of the matches we have been at and as a medical professional he worries about my health (as he does for all his patients). He has a blood lead test every other year and had asked me 5 years ago how often I checked mine. When I told him it had been since the early 90's he insisted on my checking. He was very surprised at how low the results were, as yearly I was shooting 12-15 thousand rounds for cowboy and close to 6 thousand for IDPA, as well as being an NRA instructor in an indoor range, RSO at our state range, TO/RO for CAS, brass picker, reloading and handling lead bullets, cleaning guns and brass for my wife and myself as well as everything else that goes with the shooting sports.

As an aside we had a small wager on whether my levels would go up or down from five years ago.

Man, those were a couple juicy ribeyes! :D

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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I don't get to shoot the amounts many mentioned in here, but I think I better start using gloves and a lead filter mask, when I tumble and handle brass etc.

I have a RCBS sonic tumbler, I sometimes use, but getting solution up here has become an issue, so the dry tumbling Frankford Arsenal tumbler and brass/media separator are used most of the time.

Any thoughts and opinions about washing the cases in plain hot or cold water before tumbling and depriming?

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Some people are much more susceptible to lead poisoning than others. I worked at a lead smelter for 23 years, and as blood lead standards decreased, I spent more and more time on medical removal for high blood lead. A cousin at the same plant had the same problem, so there is something genetically hereditary in some folks. I would go into smoky contaminated buildings to work dressed in a white hazmat suit, powered air respirator, gloves, booties and couldn't keep my BLL below 40. Someone working right beside me, one goofy electrician comes to mind, would have his respirator hanging around his neck, standard coveralls, no gloves, etc., and his BLL would consistently be 10 or less. Toward the end when the place finally shut down in 2001, I was on medical removal six months out of the year. In the 70's when I started there, before OSHA started cracking down, blood lead levels in the 40-60 range were common for a lot of folks. Now, I request a blood lead level check be done anytime I have blood work at the VA, and it's never been below 10. 

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On 3/18/2023 at 4:26 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

 

My belief is another major contribution to inhalation is lead dust/spray off of shotgun targets.  We shoot shotguns at hard targets closer than just about any other sport.   I can see the gray cloud that comes off the target faces when shooters connect.   The shot payloads (3/4 to 1 ounce, or 324 to 438 grains) are  5 times what our lead bullets weigh, amount to  1/5th of the shot counts of our bullets, but most of the shot pellets disintegrate rather than show up on the ground.

 

good luck, GJ

I understand your theory. But any contribution to lead exposure from shotgun targets I believe would be minimal. The shotgun targets are approximately 5 to 7 yards away. Any lead particles from shot would more than likely be concentrated in and around the point of impact. If the target is a knockdown, more of the shot will carry downrange, leaving even less around the target. 

The empty shells and brass now, is another story. We handle them at the unloading table. We carry those empties from stage to stage. We drive home with them in our vehicles. We carry them out of the vehicles into our reloading areas. Plus from the moment the first primer is hit, the GSR is airborne, right where you're standing.

Even if we were shooting blanks, the GSR from the primers is there.

 

Appreciate your feedback, GJ.

 

 

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i was also wondering what prompted the check by most people here ? 

 

i know there are jobs that require periodic checks - those all involve constant potential exposure , i have a friend who is employed in the gun industry and gets exposure on the range regularly , his company has required checks and he has had to 'sit out' till levels dropped on an occasion , i dont know what criteria they use to determine that action , 

 

i can see if you cast/tumble and reload a lot you might be curious , im not going to the doctor to find out as my exposure potential is very low , no worse than any time in my lifetime , 

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