Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Participation trophies: the scourge of childhood sports, the evidence of how soft and woke the world has become, the proof that hard work and accomplishment mean nothing anymore. Now, for a child - I fully understand the importance of learning to lose with grace and win with class. Learning that doing YOUR absolute best is important - but even when you do your best, there may be others that are still better. These are developmental items that are integral to a child growing up with a more realistic understanding of the world and their place within it. But as the term "participation trophy" gets bandied about in OUR game - is it accurate? And even if it is - does it matter? The example used was giving awards five or ten deep and having fewer than that number competing - means every person gets an award - effectively making the award meaningless. Is that true? Is it really the shooters failure that OTHER shooters were not in category? Someone posited the concept that someone MUST lose for you to have won - so even if your awards were to go five deep and there were only three in category; only 1st and 2nd would be awarded as 3rd has to be the loser. I always thought folks go on and on about this being a sport being free of money and attitudes because it was about our own performance. And personal satisfaction in our successes and failures. But now are we not satisfied with personal recognition? We are not children - I understand that. So we shouldn't require our feelings to be protected and HOPEFULLY we have all already learned our life lessons about winning and losing. I am concerned with my own placement - whether a category win or last place. My joy or disappointment is in my performance/ my position on the scoresheet - I fail to see how a thirty cent ribbon or a twelve dollar buckle given to others ahead or behind me harms me or my experience in any way. They say participation trophies are so nobody has to feel bad or feel like a loser. Hmmm... Does someone have to feel like a loser so you can feel like a winner? Is your joy based on another feeling pain? I don't think most in our game would answer yes to the above - so next time you want to call a buckle or award a participation trophy - YOU are not required to accept one. But consider for a moment that anyone else taking joy or pride accepting their award or buckle - no matter their placement or population of category; really doesn't affect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Simply continuous and relentless improvement. Any trinkets won along the way are long gone, but that drive to be better than the last time remains. Realistically, at my age, any gains will be small but the will remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 I agree with all the above, but my post had to do with the expense of clubs at State's, Regionals, Natl's, and World Championships for awards when there are possibly 60 categories or more. Cost of awards affects entry costs to ALL shooters. More categories, higher entry fees to offset awards. Or awards going down to fewer shooters in categories to keep fees lower. With runaway inflation and cost of living now, many people are cutting back on how many big matches they can afford to attend. Maybe it's a no win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 im going to be brutally honest as to my thinking here - i always appreciate any give-a-ways at a match , i never expect them , i always shoot to have fun and know full well im not going to win anything . i dont pick a catagory to win because im the only one in it - i shoot age based with full knowledge im one of many that are better than me , i would rather the club keep whatever they spend on my prize and certificate for being fourteenth in my category , i will applaud 1-2-3 then im bored and somewhat offended when i get called up as 14th and there are a few after that ....no one in my age bracket care to be recognized that far down in the pack , bottom line of this is that if i wanted recognition for my shooting id probably stay home , but then who would be 14th out of 30 or more in my age bracket ? better yet who will be 30th if im not there ? i dont need a certificate and i dont need a trophy , no award is required for me to enjoy the company and have fun doing what i love to do , im inclined to avoid the awards if this is going to happen ---but that would be disrespectful to those that shot well and deserve the honor - lets give the recognition to those that earned it , i dont need it or want it , i would gladly give the club that cost back plus a donation for the fun i had doing what e did , if that was not clear i guess i was as brutal as i could be without offending someone , no participation trophy required - just make it fun , i will always be proud to be last - i was there and did it - i got to see the winners win , and maybe i got to meet and talk to them in a social way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 In the last couple years Too Tall Bob and I have held many two day warm up matches in Tombstone. One before Bordertown and one before EOT and one before the last Phoenix held Winter Ranges. We've enjoyed great participation and the participants seem to have had a good time at all these matches. We do not give out any awards and the results are posted in a couple days after the match. In the couple years of holding these matches, I have received no complaints. It's a game, go to enjoy yourself with all your cowboy and cowgirl friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 A true test only give awards to the first place winner and no top overall as it is meaningless and watch what happens. This is a game not a competition This is a dead horse topic that pops up every few years. Participation awards keep the game alive and we need to survive. It is what it is Best Wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 16 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: But consider for a moment that anyone else taking joy or pride accepting their award or buckle - no matter their placement or population of category; really doesn't affect you. As Lone Spur Jake pointed out is does effect me in higher match fees. Same is true with matches that give out expensive door prizes. I'd rather pay a lower match fee than come home with an expensive door prize that I cannot use. I don't need another 550, Yeti Cooler, or a gun that is just going to collect dust in my safe till I decide to sell it. I attend matches that are FUN. Big buckles, Trophies, or other awards will not get me to attend nor will it keep me coming back. Same for elaborate banquets that cost North of $50 a head and serve me food that would cost 1/4 that in any restaurant. Again if I am not having fun I will not be back. BTW those VERY FEW that want those awards are VERY vocal when they don't get them. The majority of us that don't, you'll never hear us complaining because we talk soft and vote with our pocketbooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Bud Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Sometimes I think that the multitude of different categories in this game are pretty much the same concept. The concept of "Choose your Category Wisely" also comes to mind here. Frankly, I've got boxes full of Cowboy Action awards, but there are only a handful of them that I am really proud of and those are the ones I won primarily at big matches and under very competitive circumstances. There really is a difference! Good luck and good shooting to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 How many of you saw the trophies and belt buckles for EOT Top Ten winners? Wow!! That had to cost some dough unless someone donated them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toranado, SASS # 58447 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said: Participation awards keep the game alive and we need to survive. It is what it is I disagree, Participation awards is what’s killing the game. It’s driving excessively high entry fees and with the high cost of ammo and guns, high match fees are not helping. I know a couple who shot EOT wild bunch, practice stages (which are another fee) and cowboy match and pretty close to $1000 in entry fees for the week! Plus all those participation award expense and “door prizes” are driving higher vendor fees which make it harder for the vendor community to continue to support us. All so someone can get an award???? Too many categories in my opinion The game/sport is not about the awards in my opinion but shooting with good people and friends (and sometimes beating a few of them). jmho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 What is this "losing" you speak of? I've never lost a competition in my life. I either won and learned something, or I just learned something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 This debate will continue as long as SASS is alive. I started this game in 1990 and finally joined in 96. I enjoy the game and choose to remain silent. Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 When the kids get out of school and see there isn't any Participation Tropies. It must be a shock to the system. I told my kids and grand kids to enjoy, there time in school. After you get out that is when your, real education begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Toranado, SASS # 58447 said: I disagree, Participation awards is what’s killing the game. It’s driving excessively high entry fees and with the high cost of ammo and guns, high match fees are not helping. I know a couple who shot EOT wild bunch, practice stages (which are another fee) and cowboy match and pretty close to $1000 in entry fees for the week! Plus all those participation award expense and “door prizes” are driving higher vendor fees which make it harder for the vendor community to continue to support us. All so someone can get an award???? Too many categories in my opinion The game/sport is not about the awards in my opinion but shooting with good people and friends (and sometimes beating a few of them). jmho Just a little quibble here: Wild bunch/Cowboy combination - $340 Warm up match - $ 25 Speed events - $ 5 Extra event (long range) _ $ 15 Extra event (Plainsman) - $ 10 Guest Badge (if needed) - $ 10 Banquet (Optional) - $ 30 Total $ 435 per shooter While not cheap, not out of line for a world class event either. Especially as state and regional matches are upwards of $120 - $160 (some more some less) for a cowboy match (no wild bunch). Most of those charge extra for wild bunch, side matches, warm ups, etc. Note that I didn't research camping or hotels as those vary by area quite a bit BTW my local club recently upped the local match price to $15 from $12 for non members, $11 from $8 for members as the costs for the port a john doubled. At that we hope to break even this year. Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said: Yadda yadda some other stuff above...... BTW my local club recently upped the local match price to $15 from $12 for non members, $11 from $8 for members as the costs for the port a john doubled. At that we hope to break even this year. Regards Gateway Kid Just a thought....maybe if the members "donated" a little more while they were in the porta john......ah nevermind! Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 19 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said: Just a thought....maybe if the members "donated" a little more while they were in the porta john......ah nevermind! Kajun Apparently the problem was some were "donating" enough to make up for others who were not even attending! Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Next you are going to ask me to give back all of the Jeeps, pickups and handmade shotguns I have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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