Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Due to the need to seat bullets 0.040" deeper in over 1200 loaded 357MAG cartridges, I had the hopefully one-time opportunity to inspect each and every cartridge in the batch, albeit as quickly as I could load them into the press. This batch includes my first three sessions on my recently new Dillon XL750. In the 1200+ cartridges, I found: 9 high primers 3 buckled cases 3 missing primers 2 rounds of .38SPL brass with bullets very loosely held That calculates to a <1.42% error rate. After fully seating the high primers, the error rate is <0.66%. Because I inspect primers when I fill MTM cartridge boxes for match days, none of those errors ever get into a gun. 5 primers were recovered from the buckled cases and the .38SPL cases, as was some 25gr of Red Dot from those 5 rounds plus the 3 cases with missing primers (those 3 empty cases tossed back into the hopper). Perfection is the goal but hard to achieve, I know. Is there some conventional wisdom as to expected or average error rates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 0% that is not self-induced on a 550B. Even then, I would say 2 out of every 4,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: 0% that is not self-induced on a 550B. Even then, I would say 2 out of every 4,000. Well, I'd say all of my errors are self-induced; the machine operates 100% perfectly. But 2 self-induced mistakes out of 4000! That's my target! Already I can confidently say that my next 1200 will be more mistake-free than my first 1200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepherd Book Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 loading for the first season on a 550. Finally got everything adjusted to where I am comfortable. Just finished first 1200 and ended up with about 50 to practice with at home during all the adjustment phase. Now only adding about 2 per three hundred. SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Been loading on a 550 for 18 years.. kinda like Cypress Sam.. maybe 2 out of 5,000?? few enough that I don’t pay much attention to it.. I do check for split cases and separate all my cases right after cleaning.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 i apparently get lazy seating primers on my 750. I’ll get about 2-3 out of a batch of 100 that are slightly high. I have a RCBS hand primer I gently squeeze them in. Been really working on FULL upstroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 the rifle/revolver - i think i had about 50 high primers back when i started out of 2000 , after i started hand priming ive had no issues , everything else is single staged so no issues , the shotgun - on a hornaday 366 progressive had probably 30 out of 8000 , mostly they were light charged with a few bad crimps , that loader is gone now , stilll shooting the loads but single staging on an older MEC i had way more trouble with sticking the once fired federal paper hulls i started out with in my shotgun - but switched to premium plastic and that solved that issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Maverick Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said: Due to the need to seat bullets 0.040" deeper in over 1200 loaded 357MAG cartridges, I had the hopefully one-time opportunity to inspect each and every cartridge in the batch, albeit as quickly as I could load them into the press. This batch includes my first three sessions on my recently new Dillon XL750. In the 1200+ cartridges, I found: 9 high primers 3 buckled cases 3 missing primers 2 rounds of .38SPL brass with bullets very loosely held That calculates to a <1.42% error rate. After fully seating the high primers, the error rate is <0.66%. Because I inspect primers when I fill MTM cartridge boxes for match days, none of those errors ever get into a gun. 5 primers were recovered from the buckled cases and the .38SPL cases, as was some 25gr of Red Dot from those 5 rounds plus the 3 cases with missing primers (those 3 empty cases tossed back into the hopper). Perfection is the goal but hard to achieve, I know. Is there some conventional wisdom as to expected or average error rates? I would like to know what steps you used to reseat the high primers and how you recovered the 5 primers from the buckled cases without setting them off? Thanks TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Using an SDB, I get one or two either high or upsidedown primers per thousand. Sometimes I go a few thousand with no issues at all. As above, all go into boxes primer up. Making it quick and easy to see upsidedown ones and running your fingers across them finds the high one easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 Just now, Texas Maverick said: I would like to know what steps you used to reseat the high primers and how you recovered the 5 primers from the buckled cases without setting them off? Thanks TM I move the cartridge over to my RCBS single stage press and slowly and carefully duplicate the primer seating operation without putting a new primer in the primer seating cup. Primers can easily be popped out of primed cases with the Lee universal decapping die, also going SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY on the Rock Chucker Supreme single stage press. Not any problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 or 2 out of 500 rnds loaded on my D550 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: Using an SDB, I get one or two either high or upsidedown primers per thousand. Sometimes I go a few thousand with no issues at all. As above, all go into boxes primer up. Making it quick and easy to see upsidedown ones and running your fingers across them finds the high one easily. That's EXACTLY what I do -- visually and run fingertip over the primers-up rounds in the boxes. That's the very last quality check in my process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 44 minutes ago, Hoss said: i apparently get lazy seating primers on my 750. I’ll get about 2-3 out of a batch of 100 that are slightly high. I have a RCBS hand primer I gently squeeze them in. Been really working on FULL upstroke. I had a square deal B on which the handle has to be pushed hard to fully seat the primer, so I got into the habit of using my left hand on the back of the press while the right hand pushes the handle forward, squeezing together. Now I do the same thing with my old 550 and never have any high primers. Maybe one every 500 or 1000 gets flipped upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 In 12 years I’ve had maybe 3-4 split cases get through of which two ended up in a rifle. I’ve had one squib. Zero double charges. I’ve lost track of high primers. Since my primer tube ‘incident’ I’m a lot more hesitant to get real firm on the upstroke (Dillon 650) but maybe 1 high primer every 1,000-1,500. Those get culled at the loading table. I might fold a case mouth every 3,000 rounds or so. Every now and then an S&B case gets in the mix and a primer won’t seat. I’ve probably loaded over 100,000 rounds on this machine. I’ve loaded around 2,000+ 12 gauge on my new Ponsness Warren 800+ with zero defects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I run a Lee 4 hole classic turret press. It's slower than some but I haven't put out a bad round in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I use a Lee auto disk powder measure for Bullseye and Trailboss and an auto drum powder measure for APP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 My failure rate? 100%!!! I failed to reload ANY for a couple weeks, and I need to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 after reading through the other responses i did have one upside down rifle/pistol primer with my RCBS hand loader - now i just look before i squeeze , its easy enogh to flip them in the loader before you seat them , its an incuable problem when it happens so you just call it a loss 0 no sense in taking a chance disassembling in my mind but others may think different , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Using an XL650 I’m diligent keeping the primer system clean and adjusted (I know a couple of people who have had primers go off in the machine). My failure rate is usually fairly low, and often when I start running into problems it turns out that a good cleaning and lube takes care of things. I also spray Hornady One Shot case lube on the brass after I anneal, it really helps the cases go through with minimal effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Sights, SASS # 2782 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 On 3/1/2023 at 5:35 AM, Mister Badly said: I run a Lee 4 hole classic turret press. It's slower than some but I haven't put out a bad round in 3 years. As for "slow" I believe I have you beat there. I use an RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press. It is extremely rare to have a failure, but if I do, it will be a high primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Most failed loaded rounds are split cases that get through the cursory check after tumbling. A couple of flipped primers my season session had 3 out for nearly 7000 rounds. Most failed loaded rounds can get the components re used, short of split cases Dillon 550 is what I load on, my biggest problem with it is failure to pick up a new primer on the upstroke for the next round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 All great comments, thanks. I saw my first split case in that batch of 1200, too. Its components were salvaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 I also see some comments about annealing. I assume that is only done to necked cases. Everything I can find says it is pointless with straight-walled pistol cartridges. Not that I have any interest in doing it, but annealing is actually pointless with straight-walled pistol cartridges, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Annealing .45 Colt brass (straight wall) is VERY effective at getting the thick .45 Colt brass to seal up the VERY LARGE chambers (0.480") that were set as standard for that cartridge by SAAMI back in the 1920s. So, NO, annealing is not pointless, just not done unless you have blowback problems with the straight wall cartridges in rifle. Revolvers have so much cylinder gap gas escaping, no one even notices blowback. And, if you have fired other size pistol-caliber cartridges enough and work hardened the neck so you are starting to get neck splits, annealing can help reduce the crack rate. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 The fact my Lee performs one action per handle pull on one case helps me "notice" issues I miss with a visual check. A split case normally feels a bit different. I have a light shining at an angle towards the case mouth to allow me to see the powder charge as I set the bullet on the case. As I remove the finished round from the press I run my finger across the primer to verify it is seated properly as I put in in the 100 round ammo case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Catorce Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 On 2/28/2023 at 3:56 PM, Hoss said: i apparently get lazy seating primers on my 750. I’ll get about 2-3 out of a batch of 100 that are slightly high. I have a RCBS hand primer I gently squeeze them in. Been really working on FULL upstroke. I had that issue when i first got my 750… I had set the shell plate a little too high (loose) and so would rock or wobble on the upstroke… I’m more careful now during caliber conversions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Catorce Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 22 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said: My failure rate? 100%!!! I failed to reload ANY for a couple weeks, and I need to! Say!…. remember to keep a few of the thousands and thousands of primers you’ve been selling off to reload your own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 30 minutes ago, El Catorce said: Say!…. remember to keep a few of the thousands and thousands of primers you’ve been selling off to reload your own! I already did! Over 20k that I paid too much for before I knew better! But I’m set for years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronimo Jim SASS # 21775 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Key to perfection is slow down! Also only shoot your brass and know how many times it has been fired. Mark rifle case with a magic marker so they don't get someone else's brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Maybe one in a thousand I'll crush a neck on a 44-40/38-40/32-20/25-20... maybe. One 9mm this year ended up with no primer, but that was due to a loose primer pocket - the primer was in the bottom of the tray. This one, in 2016, has been the only really bad one in 45+ years reloading. Dillon 550, .38-40's, probably a double charge. I expect I was distracted by something, got up to take care of it, came back an hour later, didn't turn the table, and ran the same case back up into the charge die. If you leave the bench for a few minutes for any reason, either run the turntable empty, or leave the handle down with the ram in the up position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Geronimo Jim SASS # 21775 said: Key to perfection is slow down! Bingo! Been reloading since 1986. Zero failure. No brag. Fact. Folks with primer tube mishaps are not "feeling" the press. For example, on the 650 if you RAM the primer in on the upstroke... well... duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Defects...? Several, not caught? Maybe 3-4, one overcharge, bulged the chamber, didn't affect the gun otherwise. One or two squibs, one round w/no primer. Uh... we're not counting C&B loads are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 16 hours ago, Mister Badly said: The fact my Lee performs one action per handle pull on one case helps me "notice" issues I miss with a visual check. A split case normally feels a bit different. I have a light shining at an angle towards the case mouth to allow me to see the powder charge as I set the bullet on the case. As I remove the finished round from the press I run my finger across the primer to verify it is seated properly as I put in in the 100 round ammo case. 12 hours ago, Geronimo Jim SASS # 21775 said: Key to perfection is slow down! Also only shoot your brass and know how many times it has been fired. Mark rifle case with a magic marker so they don't get someone else's brass. Time is money. Between 12 gauge, 38 special and 32 H&R mag I already spend a couple of hours every week reloading. Slowing down isn’t an option for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 Right, Capt. Bill Burt, I agree. Speed is relative. I stepped up from my RCBS single stage to the Dillon 750 to save a considerable amount of time; I was having difficulty keeping up with the required reloading for me and Bullion Rose's needs. I intend to load as fast as I can run the 750 while minimizing errors as much as I reasonably can. There is a tradeoff between speed and perfection, as all of the comments make perfectly clear, and I'm ok with trading one or two cases per reloading session to save half an hour, if that's how it works out. The same is true for things such as annealing straight-walled cases, when some guys say they have reloaded the same batch of cases for 20 years without having ever annealed them once. I don't have time to do time-consuming things that will save a few cases here and there over time periods measured in years. And of course, I'm only talking about the reloading I do for cowboy shooting -- all very light loads for which "Target Accuracy" is simply a non-issue. Obviously, reloading for bullseye competition, long-range big bore steel plate, and hunting is a very different discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 I load on a 650 and have the occasional split case that I missed in my initial inspection before putting them into the case feeder. Like others I use Hornady One Shot lube on the brass before I load it. I have maybe 1 or 2 "problem childs" every box of 500 rounds. One thing I have done is to use a case checker gauge for every caliber and every round that comes off my press. Some people just use a cylinder off one of their revolvers and that works fine. I bought a case gauge that checks 7 at a time and it works very well. Sometimes it'll catch a split case that I missed. Like others when I put my bullets in the 100 round MTM case I check all of the primers for "upsidedownness", no primer, sideways primer or high primer. I used this gauge....you can find them in several calibers on multiple websites. Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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