Split a third of my cases at match

[R. R. Ranger]

So, I shot my first match after being out of SASS shooting for about 8-9 years. Loaded  the same 105’s in 38’s as before but using bullseye (3.6 GRS) instead of Clays as before. Still a light load and shoots POA. Same NMV’s and 73. At unloading table I noticed split cases when unloading pistols. After 2 stages , and splits constant, I started keeping them. When I got home, split about a third counting the early ones I pitched. Is this the change in powder or just old brass? I have no idea how many times loaded. I don’t want to pitch because hard to find replacements right now.

[Trailrider #896]

 

Are the splits longitudinal from the case mouth?  How many times have you resized and fired them?  Sounds like they are just work-hardened. If circumferencal, then you might be having a problem with endshake (revolver) or headspace (rifle). I'd bet on the work-hardening, however.

[R. R. Ranger]

Not split at the mouth. Sort of a fracture in the middle of the case . Cases very dirty after firing.

[Griff]

Split longitudinally or wrapped around the case?  If lengthwise, I'd say aged, work-hardened brass.  Did you observe whether in the rifle or the pistol?  I split an inordinate about of my 45 Colt brass in the rifle.  But then, 45 Colt chambers in rifles are known to be near max.  And like you, I don't segregate brass on the number of loadings it's had.   Some of mine must be creeping up on 50 years old when I bought my first Colt.

[J.D. Daily]

Do the split cases have a CBC head stamp.  CBC cases have a cannelure?  Cases with a cannelure will split there before cases will split at the case mouth.

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

This is a wild shot. I believe that old thin brass items (not just shells) can age and become brittle. I have had old unfired shotshells that had the brass base split as well as an old brass lamp base start to split. I don't know if this can be a problem with ammo, but how old and how many shots have the cases had. I also think that nickel cases can be more brittle that plain brass. 

 

Just a thought,

 

Rev. Chase

 

[R. R. Ranger]

I am thinking these cases are some I bought recently in the classified, at a good price of course. Most of my old stuff I used before were purchased new from Starline.. I used the recent purchase brass because it was cleaned and still sitting on the bench.. was mixed headstamps. The split brass was from both rifle and pistols. Both pistols are tight with no end shake. Both pistols and rifle have had chambers polished. Not had this problem , to this degree, until this brass. Lesson learned. The rest of this goes to practice tub.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Are they Nickel plated?

[R. R. Ranger]

These are but a few. CBC, Starline, Winchester, Federal, and one I don’t recognize the headstamp. Pretty much across the board as far as brass goes. I’m leaning toward worn out brass. The ones I threw away at match were the same split.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I'm thinking this brass was at some point soaked in something that weakened it.

[Michigan Slim]

40 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I'm thinking this brass was at some point soaked in something that weakened it.

I'm leaning that way too. Ammonia, maybe.

[R. R. Ranger]

Hmmmmm…….had not thought of that.

[Sedalia Dave]

Take and put them in a wet tumbler and clean them well. Then inspect the insides of the cases to see what color they are. If bright rose colored then the brass has been weakened due to some form of chemical attack.  I had a bunch of really old commercially loaded 357 brass split the same way. All of the ones that split were rose colored on the inside when cleaned.

[R. R. Ranger]

I would try that, but here’s the rub, I’ve already loaded them.

[Sedalia Dave]

21 minutes ago, R. R. Ranger said:

I would try that, but here’s the rub, I’ve already loaded them.

 

After shooting them, do it on the ones that split as well as the ones that didn't. If the split ones are rose colored they you have a possible reason for why. On those that didn't split you can cull them out before they split.

[Cinch]

Never buy used brass unless its for a .458 Winchester. Much of the once fired brass you see has probably been sized 10-15 times.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Brass can be weakened (partially dissolved) by ammonia solutions, vinegar solutions, weak acids (think muriatic acid for pool cleaning).    Those cracks are not the usual type of cracks for a .38 special case.   The "usual" would be small splits at the mouth, and circumferential splits usually at a cannelure in the case.   Those in your picture really look like a stress-corrosion crack.   I would get rid of that batch of purchased (used) brass.

 

Yes, even long term soaking in a Lemishine or other sulfamic acid "film" remover will damage brass.  Long term being more than 15 minutes, depending upon what concentration of that weak acid is present.

 

good luck, GJ

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

I have been having split cases the last year or so and the only constant I can see is wet tumbling. I thought it may be the new Czech powder I was using but have been having the same problem with TB loads. Some of the splits are in very new Starlines and its aggravating to spend for new brass and have it split after one or two loadings. I use hot water with a squirt of Dawn, a small squirt of Lemishine and a scoop of Strat-O-Sheen.

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

I have been having split cases the last year or so and the only constant I can see is wet tumbling. I thought it may be the new Czech powder I was using but have been having the same problem with TB loads. Some of the splits are in very new Starlines and its aggravating to spend for new brass and have it split after one or two loadings. I use hot water with a squirt of Dawn, a small squirt of Lemishine and a scoop of Strat-O-Sheen.

 

Which version of Dawn are you using? Regular, Platinum, Professional, Ultra?

 

Measure your squirt of Lemi-shine.

[doc roy l. pain]

As Garrison Joe said. These are not your typical split cases. 99% or better that I’ve seen from excessive loading have always run the split to the case mouth. 

[DeaconKC]

I recently had some 45 Colt brass do this. Different makers and narrowed it down to a single new gun I had just gotten that had one cylinder chamber cut slightly out of spec. Just got it back last week from warranty, hope to take it tomorrow and see if it is fixed. I wonder if one of your guns has a slightly large chamber that is allowing worn brass to split.

[Vic Halls]

Try dropping your load to 2.7gr of Bullseye. 105gr bullet.   Bulldog Brown aka Vic Halls

[Eyesa Horg]

I'm using Starline 45C brass. Had a few splits like shown on the first use. Now just every once in a while. They've been loaded at 6 to 8 times. While I do occasionally get a crack at the mouth, if they split, it just like the ones above. Until just recently, they have never been soaked in anything but Simple Green for half an hour before drying and vibratory tumbling.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

At the ULT, I am noticing a lot of shooters having seemingly more split case problems than what I noticed in the past. 

 

 I dug out a couple jars of old Winchester and Federal .38 brass from the back of my cabinet.  Just looking, without measuring, the wall thickness appears to be maybe 15%  thicker than my new Starline brass.   and the Starline brass cases I just received visually appear a bit  thinner than some I bought three years ago.   (with that said, I cannot imagine Starline retooling their plant to try to save on a bit of brass cost, but the cases do appear visually thinner -- at least at the case edge). 

But Ranger's OP was about older brass, so new brass certainly wasn't his problem.  So the question comes back to what are we doing that we didn't used to do?  

[Griff]

Those are exactly the type of splits I get in my 45 Colt brass, but only from the rifle.  And while all of mine has been loaded at least once, some of it, uncounted # of times.  Also, a LOT of mine have seen BP use over the years and lots of that has seen days if not weeks soaking in Dawn & water waiting to be tumbled.  Some has seen the inside of sonic cleaner with chemicals!   But I typically only see a single case a match, if that.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

.45 Colt cases will split in center, along the length, and usually a ragged tear.  .38 special/.357 magnum does not normally split like that (as in, the picture shows an unusual crack mode).   I've had .45 Colt split in center even in revolvers.  But some of my cases date back to 1972, so I don't hold their age against them.

 

good luck, GJ

[July Smith]

As others have pointed out old worn out brass is the most likely culprit. 

 

This is a long shot but another possibility is mouse/rat urine.  Their urine weakens brass and can cause premature case failures.

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

“T’is a puzzlement.”

 

I bought .45 Colt revolvers last year with the intention of loading Frontier Cartridge ammo in Cowboy .45 Special cases but new brass was not available from Starline.  A friend in Florida mailed me some used cases, some Starline C45S and some mixed headstamp .45 Colt cases that had been trimmed to length.  
 

I had an unusually large percentage of these cases split or crack.  I never could figure out why.  Starline finally filled my order and so far none of that virgin brass has split or cracked (I had wondered whether my chambers might be oversized).  I’ve segregated the older cases.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

6 hours ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

“T’is a puzzlement.”

 

I bought .45 Colt revolvers last year with the intention of loading Frontier Cartridge ammo in Cowboy .45 Special cases but new brass was not available from Starline.  A friend in Florida mailed me some used cases, some Starline C45S and some mixed headstamp .45 Colt cases that had been trimmed to length.  
 

I had an unusually large percentage of these cases split or crack.  I never could figure out why.  Starline finally filled my order and so far none of that virgin brass has split or cracked (I had wondered whether my chambers might be oversized).  I’ve segregated the older cases.

Just curious, of the old c45s cases and trimmed.45 Colt cases, did one split more than the other?

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

15 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Just curious, of the old c45s cases and trimmed.45 Colt cases, did one split more than the other?

Some of each but I believe more of the Starline C45S cases split.

[Griff]

15 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Just curious, of the old c45s cases and trimmed.45 Colt cases, did one split more than the other?

Some of my C45S cases are from Adirondak Jack's original order I got nearly 15 years ago, and have only had one case split.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

I've only had a handful of cases split like that. Even with belling my cases more then many do I don't get that many splits at the case mouth either.

[Trailrider #896]

This could possibly be a matter of improper annealing during the manufacturing process.  One reason military brass used to be (maybe still is) discolored at the neck and shoulder...to show proper heat treatment.  

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

On 2/27/2023 at 7:08 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Which version of Dawn are you using? Regular, Platinum, Professional, Ultra?

 

Measure your squirt of Lemi-shine.

Regular

[watab kid]

i would cull and move on , sounds like the have been reloaded to that last stand