Lead Round Nose Projectiles in Tubular Mag

[Quiet Burp]

By mistake I bought a whole case of lead round nose Seller Bellot .38SPL factory ammo and didn't realise until I got home 5 hours drive from the dealer who had stock that they were round nose. Are these safe for a tube mag or should I only use them in my pistols?

Thanks in advance.

[Rip Snorter]

Pistols! Personally I wouldn't risk a tubular mag.

[J.D. Daily]

A round nose bullet will not indent a primer enough for the cup to hit the anvil.  Think of all the tube magazine lever action rifles chambered for 38SP/357M & 44SP/44M that don't have warning labels re. ojive shape.

[Rip Snorter]

Folks manage to blow up their pistol caliber rifles often enough for me to prefer flat point.  I'd prefer a failure to feed to a detonation any day.

[Doc Moses]

19 minutes ago, J.D. Daily said:

A round nose bullet will not indent a primer enough for the cup to hit the anvil.  Think of all the tube magazine lever action rifles chambered for 38SP/357M & 44SP/44M that don't have warning labels re. ojive shape.

Especially at the velocity most cowboy loads are at.  Not much pressure during recoil. Safest bet is use for revolvers but I would not be afraid to put them in amy rifle.

[John Kloehr]

I would reserve them for pistols. The few tales of in-magazine detonations carry more weight with me than the overwhelming majority who never had a problem,

 

Look on the bright side... You now need another road trip for more ammo. You have been blessed!

[Cypress Sun]

1 hour ago, Quiet Burp said:

By mistake I bought a whole case of lead round nose Seller Bellot .38SPL factory ammo and didn't realise until I got home 5 hours drive from the dealer who had stock that they were round nose. Are these safe for a tube mag or should I only use them in my pistols?

Thanks in advance.

 

Use them in your pistols. Even though the risk of a tube explosion is remote, why risk it. Make use that you keep your S & B brass separate from the rest of your brass...better yet, throw it away with prejudice.

1 hour ago, Doc Moses said:

Especially at the velocity most cowboy loads are at.  Not much pressure during recoil. Safest bet is use for revolvers but I would not be afraid to put them in amy rifle.

 

He stated that these were factory ammo, not reloads.

[Earl Brasse, SASS #3562]

2 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

Make use that you keep your S & B brass separate from the rest of your brass...better yet, throw it away with prejudice.

 

 

What is the issue with the brass?

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Magazine detonations in tubular magazines from round nose bullets and/or high primers are much more likely to be from the column of cartridges slamming against each other from spring pressure every time the rifle is levered than from recoil.  Yes it is rare but it has happened and has been reported here and elsewhere.  And since the vast majority of us use flat point bullets, that makes is somewhat less rare statistically for those using RN.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Please be so kind as to take note.  Those who espouse running round nose bullets in YOUR tubular magazine rifle aren't wrapping THEIR hands around that magazine.  Magazine detonations happen.  Not really common, sure, but you don't want to be the one on your block to see the hand surgeon.  Round Nose bullets are for handguns.

[Cypress Sun]

27 minutes ago, Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 said:

 

What is the issue with the brass?

 

S & B brass has notoriously small primer holes. If you don't catch them before you go to prime them, you usually ruin a primer and interrupt the reloading process.

 

S & B brass is one of two brands that I toss, the other being Amerc. Amerc has a very small rim that may or may not eject from the rifle.

[Earl Brasse, SASS #3562]

Thank you for the info.

Apology for the thread interruption,.

 

 

Just a thought on topic, our distances are close, would a couple of file strokes turn your RN into an RNFP that would feed?

Maybe make a jig.

Or just use them in pistol & buy more ammo. 

[J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526]

I witnessed a magazine tube detonation, eight 45 Colt cartridges due to a high primer. Not worth the chance. Use your round nose ammo in pistols.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

LRN at SASS levels is not a concern 

[SHOOTIN FOX]

RN bullets in a tubular magazine are high risk. Check the manual on any tube mag rifle and it usually states flat  point bullets. Over the last three years, there have been two mag detonations from rn bullets in tubular mags at our range. Not worth the risk. YMMV.

 

 

[Doc Moses]

3 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

 

[Tom Bullweed]

For the distances we shoot , I have modified round nose projectiles (not loaded cartridges) by flattening the nose with a hot steel bar.  A solid tap with a sturdy hammer might flatten the nose enough to eliminate the concern, if the lead is fairly soft.

[Three Foot Johnson]

Make you wonder how we ever survived hunting seasons 50 years ago shooting round nose soft point ammo in our lever action .30-30's, .32 Specials, .35 Remingtons, .38-55's, and so on. 

[Griff]

4 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

LRN at SASS levels is not a concern 

 

1 hour ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Make you wonder how we ever survived hunting seasons 50 years ago shooting round nose soft point ammo in our lever action .30-30's, .32 Specials, .35 Remingtons, .38-55's, and so on. 

There is "round nose" and then there are "round nose".  There's an awful lot of ogives that seem to be called round nose!  I've seen some that have a definite point on the "round nose" and others that are really half a circle.  I loaded the 2nd type in a pair of Rossis for years for my wife and my son.  I don't use soft Federal primers, and used both Winchester and CCI primers over that time.   I wouldn't touch the 1st type at all! 

[Lassy LaRock]

6 hours ago, Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 said:

 

Just a thought on topic, our distances are close, would a couple of file strokes turn your RN into an RNFP that would feed?

That's fine. I've already done it.

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

Not familiar with S&B primers, but as mentioned by Griff, it's the softness of the primer I would be concerned about, rather than the powder charge or velocity of the round.

ANY charge(s) going off in a Magazine tube would ruin your day.

Just the view from my saddle.

Here in gun unfriendly Canada, it could be an excuse to shut down the range for an indefinite period, "For Investigation".

[J Bird Blue, SASS # 57924]

My Marlin 1894 manual states all FACTORY ammo except wadcutters and shotshells are safe to use. Seems to me that would include even roundnose FMC.

[John Kloehr]

1 hour ago, J Bird Blue, SASS # 57924 said:

My Marlin 1894 manual states all FACTORY ammo except wadcutters and shotshells are safe to use. Seems to me that would include even roundnose FMC.

Deeper in the Marlin 1894 manual:

 

•WARNING: Never attempt to load your rifle with ammunition that does not meet the cartridge designation stamped on the barrel. Use only ammunition suitable for a tubu- lar magazine rifle. We recommend clean, dry, factory-loaded ammunition which con- forms to industry standards.

•WARNING: Some pointed and full metal jacket round nose bullets are on the market which can chainfire other cartridges in a tubular magazine during recoil, causing severe injury and damage. If you are uncertain about the safety of using a particular cartridge in your Marlin, contact the ammunition or bullet manufacturer.

•WARNING: Do not use aluminum-cased ammunition in this rifle, since it may cause malfunctions.

•WARNING: Do not use Blazer brand ammunition in this rifle. The design is not com- patible with the Marlin feeding system, and may result in live rounds inadvertently remaining in the magazine.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

An old rough file, and a few minutes of your time, you can make flat points out of the ammo you are going to use in your rifle.

[Eyesa Horg]

2 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

Deeper in the Marlin 1894 manual:

 

•WARNING: Never attempt to load your rifle with ammunition that does not meet the cartridge designation stamped on the barrel. Use only ammunition suitable for a tubu- lar magazine rifle. We recommend clean, dry, factory-loaded ammunition which con- forms to industry standards.

•WARNING: Some pointed and full metal jacket round nose bullets are on the market which can chainfire other cartridges in a tubular magazine during recoil, causing severe injury and damage. If you are uncertain about the safety of using a particular cartridge in your Marlin, contact the ammunition or bullet manufacturer.

•WARNING: Do not use aluminum-cased ammunition in this rifle, since it may cause malfunctions.

•WARNING: Do not use Blazer brand ammunition in this rifle. The design is not com- patible with the Marlin feeding system, and may result in live rounds inadvertently remaining in the magazine.

What's different about Blazer brass?

My Marlin has never felt a factory round since new. Only used lead RNFP.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

5 hours ago, J Bird Blue, SASS # 57924 said:

My Marlin 1894 manual states all FACTORY ammo except wadcutters and shotshells are safe to use. Seems to me that would include even roundnose FMC.

It's about feeding, not if it's unsafe...

[John Kloehr]

3 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

An old rough file, and a few minutes of your time, you can make flat points out of the ammo you are going to use in your rifle.

Paying attention to OAL, of course.

[McCandless]

23 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

LRN at SASS levels is not a concern 

 

Factory loads maybe... but I'd check every one of them for a high primer.   It only takes one to ruin someone's day.  Having been timing someone when their magazine detonated, which didn't turn out well for the shooter or the rifle.  (For myself, I'm just happy I didn't have to change my pants!)  Shooter to the ER.  

[Trailrider #896]

Before Hornady came out with a Flat Point Jacketed .338 bullet (now discontinued ),for use in .33 WCF, I shot Herters .338" RN Jacketed softpoints in a tubular magazine M1886. The magazine was only 5-rounds long. I never had a problem with them. THAT SAID, there being other factors, such as high primers, soft primers, hard lead alloy noses, I would, as suggested, either flatten the noses or restrict the use to revolvers.  No use taking a chance!

[Hoss]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:14 PM, Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 said:

 

What is the issue with the brass?

Primer pocket slightly small. Most primers won’t seat well. 

[Fence Cutter]

On 2/23/2023 at 10:56 PM, Three Foot Johnson said:

Make you wonder how we ever survived hunting seasons 50 years ago shooting round nose soft point ammo in our lever action .30-30's, .32 Specials, .35 Remingtons, .38-55's, and so on. 

 

Yep,

back in the day there were no choices you shot what you could find and it worked.

We're the same bunch that grew up riding around in the back of a pickup ..... if we had a bicycle we sure never thought about a helmet .... drove tractors that we could hardly reach the pedals on ...... drank from a garden hose ..... ran with sticks ....... hitchhiked .... and what not. 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

On 2/23/2023 at 8:56 PM, Three Foot Johnson said:

Make you wonder how we ever survived hunting seasons 50 years ago shooting round nose soft point ammo in our lever action .30-30's, .32 Specials, .35 Remingtons, .38-55's, and so on. 

 

How many rounds did people put down range at top speed 50 years ago in a years time or in a lifetime for that matter?

[Cypress Sun]

8 hours ago, Fence Cutter said:

 

Yep,

back in the day there were no choices you shot what you could find and it worked.

We're the same bunch that grew up riding around in the back of a pickup ..... if we had a bicycle we sure never thought about a helmet .... drove tractors that we could hardly reach the pedals on ...... drank from a garden hose ..... ran with sticks ....... hitchhiked .... and what not. 

 

Ah yes, the good ol days.

 

The days before seat belts, air bags, antilock brakes, smoke/CO2 detectors or 911...didn't need 'em then...what do we need 'em for now?

 

Everyone has their own choices in life to make. I choose to wear my seatbelt, not because I think that I'm going to be in an accident, but because of the possibility of being in an accident. For that same reason, I choose to use flat point bullets in my tube fed rifle.

 

YMMV

[Fence Cutter]

3 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Ah yes, the good ol days.

 

The days before seat belts, air bags, antilock brakes, smoke/CO2 detectors or 911...didn't need 'em then...what do we need 'em for now?

 

Everyone has their own choices in life to make. I choose to wear my seatbelt, not because I think that I'm going to be in an accident, but because of the possibility of being in an accident. For that same reason, I choose to use flat point bullets in my tube fed rifle.

 

YMMV

 

I wasn't trying to sway anybody one way or the other. I was merely pointing out at one time if you didn't have a lot of choice, you got by with what you had.

In fact, I've never even gave my opinion of shooting round nose in a tubular magazine.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Less than a second against a sanding disc or belt sander or a quick rub against sandpaper atop a flat surface will flatten the point enough to assure no primer detonations, and will not alter the ballistics or weight enough to matter in our kind of shooting.  But check the COAL on the first few to be sure they will feed properly. 

Then you can quit worrying.