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Discover Card to start gun store merchant code


sassnetguy50

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Asking a legitimate question here. My wife and I closed our business 10 years ago for a lot of reasons. Much happier now!:)

But even then receipt’s for credit card bills were itemized on our monthly statements as to the exact item purchased and its price, not a general dollar figure for the entire purchase. As we issued cards to our employees if a single item was on a prohibited list we created (alcohol or alcoholic beverage with meals or at a package service, streaming services such as porn movies at hotels, others) the entire transaction would be declined until the offending item was paid for by other means first or until after a call was made to our office) We very rarely use credit cards now mostly our debit cards or cash but the two we use, 1 visa and a Sam’s card both itemize individual items as well as a total dollar figure. 
So my question is if that level of detail was available then (and now) what is to stop any company or government entity from compiling a simple database of what anyone/everyone has purchased these days?

And before some jump in and say it is to much info to track, remember that if you call a business and they say something like “this call may be recorded for training purposes” it IS being recorded. While not in the business myself I have worked with a number of people who helped install the software and hardware that made that possible. Have always wondered what they do/did with all that data. 
Regards and thanks for others insights 

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:
Gateway Kid

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7 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

I wouldn't buy a firearm from your place for sure. I'm done on this. When a gunshop owner doesn't as yourself doesn't question why suddenly firearm purchases and ammo are being targeted and not whatever else you sell in your place. I know the big 2 dealers down here don't like it and wonder what its leading to.  

I'm done on this subject, apparently Creeker is the expert and not to worry why will calm us down and have all the answers.

 

This new Merchant code may lead to changes coming down the road - but these changes are on the Merchant side and will affect the consumer tangentially or not at all.

 

I am not going to insult you - you are not stupid; but you are incorrectly informed and you have latched onto an incorrect premise.

 

I'm not questioning "Why suddenly firearm purchases and ammo are being targeted and not whatever else I sell in my place" for a good reason.

 

Because that is NOT what is happening.

 

Let me explain:

When a business requests a credit card processor from their bank, Square or online vendor - the processor asks what type of business and how large of business it is for categorization.

Categorization determines the "risk" of the business - if the field/ industry is of high risk for fraud, customer dissatisfaction chargebacks or common customer fail to pays (or the vendor volume to low) - the credit card processor may decide to deny processing or charge a higher rate to the merchant for that processing.

 

Examples of high risk industries include online retailers, travel sellers, drug paraphernalia/ adjacent, adult entertainment, etc. and so on - each of these MAY pay a higher cost of processing than other industries.

 

My shop and others have been classified as General Merchandise - this is a catch all code.  We will now be catorgorized as FFL sellers - a more specific code.

This MAY lead to us being charged higher rates for processing if we are classified as high risk.

This MAY lead to processors denying us service.

This MAY lead to FFL dealers becoming cash only businesses.

This MAY lead to consumer sorting by where YOU make purchases.

 

But what it does not lead to is tracking of WHAT you purchase - because the processor does NOT have access to that.

 

EVERYTHING that is run thru my credit card machine will now be catorgized with a MCC designating the SALE as originating at a FFL dealer.

EVERYTHING - hats, shirts, holsters, ammo, background check fees, firearms, pottery, jewelry, Mexican blankets, classroom training and Snickers bars.

 

Stating that it is solely tracking firearms sales is incorrect and misleading.

And an incorrect narrative does nothing but rile folks up and get them focused in the wrong direction.

 

This new code may be intended to do all of things folks are claiming its for - but the FACTS are; it is limited in what it can accomplish.

 

Being designated high risk and my processing costs increasing will hurt my business.

Losing CC processing altogether will hurt my business.

FFLs losing CC processing may change the way customers shop - but might actually bring internet shoppers back into physical shops.

 

There are a myriad of unknowns - and undoubtedly bad intentions.

But we have all seen talking heads get on TV and state; this action will do this and achieve that.

They are always wrong - we survived before credit cards and if needed we will survive after.

The sky is not falling - the end is not near and no one is knocking on anyones door because your purchase was coded.

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@Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life

If the retailer has deigned to use a combined processor/ pos system - they might itemize the sales listing.

 

But a small retailer (like myself) has a cash register, a receipt book and a stand alone card processor.

 

I swipe your card - input a total charge and receive an approval or decline.

Your statement will note my business and a corresponding charge.

Nothing more - because the processor has no access to that information.

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2 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

This new Merchant code may lead to changes coming down the road - but these changes are on the Merchant side and will affect the consumer tangentially or not at all.

 

I am not going to insult you - you are not stupid; but you are incorrectly informed and you have latched onto an incorrect premise.

 

I'm not questioning "Why suddenly firearm purchases and ammo are being targeted and not whatever else I sell in my place" for a good reason.

 

Because that is NOT what is happening.

 

Let me explain:

When a business requests a credit card processor from their bank, Square or online vendor - the processor asks what type of business and how large of business it is for categorization.

Categorization determines the "risk" of the business - if the field/ industry is of high risk for fraud, customer dissatisfaction chargebacks or common customer fail to pays (or the vendor volume to low) - the credit card processor may decide to deny processing or charge a higher rate to the merchant for that processing.

 

Examples of high risk industries include online retailers, travel sellers, drug paraphernalia/ adjacent, adult entertainment, etc. and so on - each of these MAY pay a higher cost of processing than other industries.

 

My shop and others have been classified as General Merchandise - this is a catch all code.  We will now be catorgorized as FFL sellers - a more specific code.

This MAY lead to us being charged higher rates for processing if we are classified as high risk.

This MAY lead to processors denying us service.

This MAY lead to FFL dealers becoming cash only businesses.

This MAY lead to consumer sorting by where YOU make purchases.

 

But what it does not lead to is tracking of WHAT you purchase - because the processor does NOT have access to that.

 

EVERYTHING that is run thru my credit card machine will now be catorgized with a MCC designating the SALE as originating at a FFL dealer.

EVERYTHING - hats, shirts, holsters, ammo, background check fees, firearms, pottery, jewelry, Mexican blankets, classroom training and Snickers bars.

 

Stating that it is solely tracking firearms sales is incorrect and misleading.

And an incorrect narrative does nothing but rile folks up and get them focused in the wrong direction.

 

This new code may be intended to do all of things folks are claiming its for - but the FACTS are; it is limited in what it can accomplish.

 

Being designated high risk and my processing costs increasing will hurt my business.

Losing CC processing altogether will hurt my business.

FFLs losing CC processing may change the way customers shop - but might actually bring internet shoppers back into physical shops.

 

There are a myriad of unknowns - and undoubtedly bad intentions.

But we have all seen talking heads get on TV and state; this action will do this and achieve that.

They are always wrong - we survived before credit cards and if needed we will survive after.

The sky is not falling - the end is not near and no one is knocking on anyones door because your purchase was coded.

It could also lead to a firearms industry cryptocurrency or stores selling their gift cards through a third party or... many interesting possibilities there.  

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25 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

It could also lead to a firearms industry cryptocurrency or stores selling their gift cards through a third party or... many interesting possibilities there.  

These are all reasons that panic behavior and doomsday scenarios are over reactions.

 

Until our industry itself is deemed illegal - everything else is just roadblocks and impediments. 

Placed by small minded folks that cannot comprehend the unforeseen consequences of their actions.

Nature abhors a vacuum - other processors will arise if the market creates opportunity.

Other methods will rise up (I like the idea of pewpew crypto).

I have chosen to be part of an ostracized industry - WE have also chosen to enjoy a past time that some denigrate.

 

But until something is a danger - be aware of it and its potential but I don't see the benefit in being scared of it.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
15 minutes ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

Visa, Mastercard pause decision to track gun shop purchases

 

 

 

 

Visa, Mastercard pause decision to track gun shop purchases (msn.com)

That is a smart move with the state laws passing and internet sales.  One mistake by a low level or politically motivated employee and you risk the state contract. 

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im looking AT THIS TWO WAYS - 

 

first , just because im paranoid doesnt mean they arent tracking my every move with nefarious intent of one sort or another !

 

and second , i know they are tracking every keystroke , deposit/withdrawal , credit card purchase and phone call as well as my location - so whats new about this ? 

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2 minutes ago, watab kid said:

im looking AT THIS TWO WAYS - 

 

first , just because im paranoid doesnt mean they arent tracking my every move with nefarious intent of one sort or another !

 

and second , i know they are tracking every keystroke , deposit/withdrawal , credit card purchase and phone call as well as my location - so whats new about this ? 

That is tracking for marketing.  This is tracking for political/legal action against you for exercising your constitutional right.

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i get that but then the bank tracking is related to IRS actions and last i heard we were free here to make a living without government interference , but then again we did pass that damned amendment that allowed taxation , or perhaps i should say someone before us did ..........maybe we should demand reoperations ? 

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17 hours ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

Visa, Mastercard pause decision to track gun shop purchases

 

 

 

 

Visa, Mastercard pause decision to track gun shop purchases (msn.com)

I wonder if Discover will follow suit. I'm waiting.............

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Their card, their rules.  If you don't like it cut up the credit cards you have now and pay cash.

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10 minutes ago, Chantry said:

Their card, their rules.  If you don't like it cut up the credit cards you have now and pay cash.

Exactly what I'll do if they don't rescind their stance. I've got a MC and so I'll get a Visa and dump Discover even though I almost never buy a gun on a credit card. ;)

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I wonder if Discover will follow suit. I'm waiting.............

 

So am I.

 

I've read conflicting reports that Discover is rescinding the tracking and that Discover is keeping the tracking on course for a March or April (can't remember which) roll out.

 

 

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7 hours ago, watab kid said:

i get that but then the bank tracking is related to IRS actions and last i heard we were free here to make a living without government interference , but then again we did pass that damned amendment that allowed taxation , or perhaps i should say someone before us did ..........maybe we should demand reoperations ? 

The ATF is part of the IRS.  The MCC is their first step in a plan.

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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I wonder if Discover will follow suit. I'm waiting.............

 

49 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

So am I.

 

I've read conflicting reports that Discover is rescinding the tracking and that Discover is keeping the tracking on course for a March or April (can't remember which) roll out.

 

 

Those articles were probably wrote immediately after Visa. Mastercard, American Express made their announcements.  Discover announced hours after the big three that they will also be pausing their start date.

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On 2/24/2023 at 10:31 AM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

This new Merchant code may lead to changes coming down the road - but these changes are on the Merchant side and will affect the consumer tangentially or not at all.

 

I am not going to insult you - you are not stupid; but you are incorrectly informed and you have latched onto an incorrect premise.

 

I'm not questioning "Why suddenly firearm purchases and ammo are being targeted and not whatever else I sell in my place" for a good reason.

 

Because that is NOT what is happening.

 

Let me explain:

When a business requests a credit card processor from their bank, Square or online vendor - the processor asks what type of business and how large of business it is for categorization.

Categorization determines the "risk" of the business - if the field/ industry is of high risk for fraud, customer dissatisfaction chargebacks or common customer fail to pays (or the vendor volume to low) - the credit card processor may decide to deny processing or charge a higher rate to the merchant for that processing.

 

Examples of high risk industries include online retailers, travel sellers, drug paraphernalia/ adjacent, adult entertainment, etc. and so on - each of these MAY pay a higher cost of processing than other industries.

 

My shop and others have been classified as General Merchandise - this is a catch all code.  We will now be catorgorized as FFL sellers - a more specific code.

This MAY lead to us being charged higher rates for processing if we are classified as high risk.

This MAY lead to processors denying us service.

This MAY lead to FFL dealers becoming cash only businesses.

This MAY lead to consumer sorting by where YOU make purchases.

 

But what it does not lead to is tracking of WHAT you purchase - because the processor does NOT have access to that.

 

EVERYTHING that is run thru my credit card machine will now be catorgized with a MCC designating the SALE as originating at a FFL dealer.

EVERYTHING - hats, shirts, holsters, ammo, background check fees, firearms, pottery, jewelry, Mexican blankets, classroom training and Snickers bars.

 

Stating that it is solely tracking firearms sales is incorrect and misleading.

And an incorrect narrative does nothing but rile folks up and get them focused in the wrong direction.

 

This new code may be intended to do all of things folks are claiming its for - but the FACTS are; it is limited in what it can accomplish.

 

Being designated high risk and my processing costs increasing will hurt my business.

Losing CC processing altogether will hurt my business.

FFLs losing CC processing may change the way customers shop - but might actually bring internet shoppers back into physical shops.

 

There are a myriad of unknowns - and undoubtedly bad intentions.

But we have all seen talking heads get on TV and state; this action will do this and achieve that.

They are always wrong - we survived before credit cards and if needed we will survive after.

The sky is not falling - the end is not near and no one is knocking on anyones door because your purchase was coded.

 

The insidious thing about that MCC code is that while it doesn't allow itemized tracking of the sales, only that something was bought from that vendor, it doesn't matter what you bought. Buy a pack of gum, a pair of socks, a Barrett .50 BMG rifle, it's all the same. YOU bought something from that evil gun vendor, therefore you are suspect.

The other thing about that MCC code is that they all announced it within a day or two, and then they all paused it at the same time.  Sort of like they all got together and decided it would be a Good Thing To Do.  The sporting industry needs to demand that the feds to hit those companies with a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act investigation.  

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5 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

The insidious thing about that MCC code is that while it doesn't allow itemized tracking of the sales, only that something was bought from that vendor, it doesn't matter what you bought. Buy a pack of gum, a pair of socks, a Barrett .50 BMG rifle, it's all the same. YOU bought something from that evil gun vendor, therefore you are suspect.

The other thing about that MCC code is that they all announced it within a day or two, and then they all paused it at the same time.  Sort of like they all got together and decided it would be a Good Thing To Do.  The sporting industry needs to demand that the feds to hit those companies with a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act investigation.  

Visa, MC, AmEx all fought against the MCC for a couple years, a big reason the ISO initially denied the petition twice.  Once the ISO standardized the MCC is when they said they would implement the standard.  I'd guess following the ISO shields them from RICO charges but I'm not a lawyer.

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What bears scrutiny is that they have all rescinded the use of this MCC code for now and made public announcements to that effect.  What’s preventing them from, later, quietly reinstituting this code with no announcement??  


The other codes used were not announced, at least with any fanfare, and the only reason this one struck a nerve was that the whistle was blown on it!!!

 

The only thing that will prevent this from happening in some moment when some other greater distraction diverts attention is VIGILANCE!!

 

Don’t think for a second that this can’t/won’t happen!!  First chance one of these outfits gets, they’ll try it again!!

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18 hours ago, sassnetguy50 said:

The ATF is part of the IRS.  The MCC is their first step in a plan.

im not going to dispute that the government controls the IRS and the ATF , i would ghope our banking system is not a government agency ...yet 

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