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Discover Card to start gun store merchant code


sassnetguy50

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20 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

I'll be curious to see the number of gun owners that will drop these cards to show their response? Bet there be very few?

This has zero affect on gun owners or the credit card user - its affect is on the firearms retailer.

 

This is designed to differentiate MERCHANTS who sell firearms and like items - merchant codes are nothing new and are used to either ensure a wide portfolio of merchants which protects the credit card processor in the event of a market downturn (more variety in merchant mix means a singular event that affects; say gas stations doesn't crash your entire business as you dont have all your eggs in gas station processing).

Merchant codes are also used to identify industries that are of higher risk for fraud or customer chargeback.

An example: your online retailer is identified as such; and as a higher risk for customer dissatisfaction, incorrect orders, etc. pays a higher fee to process credit cards than a brick and mortar store.

 

There may be nefarious thought behind the firearms merchant code and they may be laying groundwork for the future - but right now; merchant codes are common and widely used.

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My guess is that they sell your buying history to marketing firms.  John Smith spends $1,000 at a gun store and now Bass Pro Shop buys this information and starts sending him junk mail.  

 

I have always tried to paid cash for my gun purchases.  I just don't need a paper trail for the family auditor to find.   

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6 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

This has zero affect on gun owners or the credit card user - its affect is on the firearms retailer.

 

This is designed to differentiate MERCHANTS who sell firearms and like items - merchant codes are nothing new and are used to either ensure a wide portfolio of merchants which protects the credit card processor in the event of a market downturn (more variety in merchant mix means a singular event that affects; say gas stations doesn't crash your entire business as you dont have all your eggs in gas station processing).

Merchant codes are also used to identify industries that are of higher risk for fraud or customer chargeback.

An example: your online retailer is identified as such; and as a higher risk for customer dissatisfaction, incorrect orders, etc. pays a higher fee to process credit cards than a brick and mortar store.

 

There may be nefarious thought behind the firearms merchant code and they may be laying groundwork for the future - but right now; merchant codes are common and widely used.

Eventually trickling down to the buyers. One reason we have the NRA Visa card or 95% Cash. Someone will now have individual gun buyers info stored somewhere for the future. Then ask, why you would want to differentiate Dealers and reason behind this?

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47 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

This has zero affect on gun owners or the credit card user - its affect is on the firearms retailer.

 

This is designed to differentiate MERCHANTS who sell firearms and like items - merchant codes are nothing new and are used to either ensure a wide portfolio of merchants which protects the credit card processor in the event of a market downturn (more variety in merchant mix means a singular event that affects; say gas stations doesn't crash your entire business as you dont have all your eggs in gas station processing).

Merchant codes are also used to identify industries that are of higher risk for fraud or customer chargeback.

An example: your online retailer is identified as such; and as a higher risk for customer dissatisfaction, incorrect orders, etc. pays a higher fee to process credit cards than a brick and mortar store.

 

There may be nefarious thought behind the firearms merchant code and they may be laying groundwork for the future - but right now; merchant codes are common and widely used.

Halfway accurate, that is the immediate effect of the MCC. 

 

The longterm is it eliminates one of the major hurdles to credit card tracking.  There have been multiple proposals to track credit card purchases of guns and create Suspicious Activity Reports.  Now they have a code they can use and only need to assign dollar amounts.   Example: if they spend, say $500 with these merchants in a month or spend $1,500 in a year.

 

Even longer term, say they assign a bigger number like the irs did in the 70s.  Then never adjust the number for inflation, now it is a regular weekly report filed on many citizens who use a bank.  Those who choose not to use banks may have all of their cash seized with no charges or day in court by civil forfeiture.  Back on point, the unadjusted number means your grandkids would be "suspicious" for buying a singleshot 22.  

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Those who are certain that conspiracy lurks behind every tree amazingly often find one of their own creation.

 

MCC are nothing new - and like EVERYTHING, perhaps they could be used for nefarious purpose - but CC processors are in business to make money not track how often you buy new underwear, tinfoil for your hats or firearms.

 

Merchant code tracking enables them to determine which industries perform best/ worst by their metrics.

 

Now it is possible that coding of firearms is to begin building in protections against the scrutinies that manufacturers, retailers and facilitators of firearm sales are going to be subject to if the current trend of suing everyone that ever touched an item used criminally continues.

 

This would classify firearms retailers as a high risk industry and the card companies would assign higher costs to CC processing to the merchant.

 

But it is certainly not a individual tracking watching how much Ballistol you buy annually.

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33 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Those who are certain that conspiracy lurks behind every tree amazingly often find one of their own creation.

 

MCC are nothing new - and like EVERYTHING, perhaps they could be used for nefarious purpose - but CC processors are in business to make money not track how often you buy new underwear, tinfoil for your hats or firearms.

 

Merchant code tracking enables them to determine which industries perform best/ worst by their metrics.

 

Now it is possible that coding of firearms is to begin building in protections against the scrutinies that manufacturers, retailers and facilitators of firearm sales are going to be subject to if the current trend of suing everyone that ever touched an item used criminally continues.

 

This would classify firearms retailers as a high risk industry and the card companies would assign higher costs to CC processing to the merchant.

 

But it is certainly not a individual tracking watching how much Ballistol you buy annually.

So, I should trust you and your synopsis of what may become? Where do you get your info, MNBC or CNN?

One thing to remember, Sporting Good Stores and Gun Stores sell other merchandise beside Firearms and ammo. Will they be tracking the cap you bought, or the fishing rod? How about the safe or gun case? No, tracking Firearms and ammo, then ask why and not all purchases.

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This is so simple!  Use the credit card, if you use those damned things, to get a cash advance!!  Pay cash for everything you buy that you feel is nobody’s business.

 

Everybody buys food, clothing, fuel, and shelter. For those things, even I, use a debit card!!  
 

If I am shopping in other stores or venues, I make it a point to use CASH!!  It often can result in discounts and allows the merchant to avoid charges by these “businesses”!!

 

I STILL occasionally write a paper check!  Since they no longer remain in the hands of the financial institutions for more than a few days, tracking them is nearly pointless.

 

I haven’t had a credit card in over twenty-five years and don’t miss the aggravation even a little!!

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1 hour ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

So, I should trust you and your synopsis of what may become? Where do you get your info, MNBC or CNN?

One thing to remember, Sporting Good Stores and Gun Stores sell other merchandise beside Firearms and ammo. Will they be tracking the cap you bought, or the fishing rod? How about the safe or gun case? No, tracking Firearms and ammo, then ask why and not all purchases.

I get my information from MY CREDIT CARD PROCESSORS. 

I own a gunshop - do you?

I have also been involved in the credit card industry for the last 10 years in other capacities - have you?

 

The Merchant code simply will say this sale took place at a firearms retailer - the processor has ZERO way to know whether you spent $1200 on a gun safe or an AR.

 

Where did your information come from?

You Tube theorists and fear mongers.

 

Before you repeat incorrect information and run about claiming the sky is falling - exercise a bit of research and have some rudimentary knowledge of the topic.

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As someone noted, the MCC merely designates the type of merchant:

https://www.citibank.com/tts/solutions/commercial-cards/assets/docs/govt/Merchant-Category-Codes.pdf

 

I'm not going to lose much sleep over it - the guv'mint already gets much more detailed data from the 4473 and NICS (at least in this state).  

 

I spent an entire career in the bankcard industry - literally started in the mailroom for Western States BankCard Association (the original Master Charge company).  My last positions in the industry were as project manager and department head (Merchant Settlement - responsible for $50 - $60 million in daily deposits) for a major bank.  During those years I worked in marketing, security, product development, and what might be called "mergers and acquisitions."  Some of it was pretty exciting; some was downright ugly.

 

Then I came to my senses and traded a high $$, super stressful career for a much lower paying but peaceful job with a non-profit.

 

So, how many credit cards do I have today?  Not a one!  Haven't for a LONG time.  There are many more things to worry about with credit cards than someone knowing where I shop.  (Of course, I do use debit cards - but still don't worry about merchant codes).  

 

And cash does still work - for now!  :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Those who are certain that conspiracy lurks behind every tree amazingly often find one of their own creation.

 

MCC are nothing new - and like EVERYTHING, perhaps they could be used for nefarious purpose - but CC processors are in business to make money not track how often you buy new underwear, tinfoil for your hats or firearms.

 

Merchant code tracking enables them to determine which industries perform best/ worst by their metrics.

 

Now it is possible that coding of firearms is to begin building in protections against the scrutinies that manufacturers, retailers and facilitators of firearm sales are going to be subject to if the current trend of suing everyone that ever touched an item used criminally continues.

 

This would classify firearms retailers as a high risk industry and the card companies would assign higher costs to CC processing to the merchant.

 

But it is certainly not a individual tracking watching how much Ballistol you buy annually.

Clearly you haven't been following along.  This MCC was created as a way to implement new gun control.  

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5 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Clearly you haven't been following along.  This MCC was created as a way to implement new gun control.  

Of course; how could I be so stupid?

By categorizing sales made by credit card at FFL dealers - they will be able to know...

 

Uhmmm...What exactly?

 

That on such and such date YOU spent $326.47 at Freds Freedom Shop?

They already knew that.

 

An MC code might make it easier to sort and track - but gunshops are notoriously non clever with naming conventions - its not difficult to discern that Charlies Guns and Ammo might sell firearms.

 

But with a designated code or without - they still have ZERO way of knowing what you bought; whether classroom training, ammo, layaway payment, firearm, reloading supplies or holsters and hearing protection.

 

Just like you spending $23.75 at McDonalds and using your card - they don't know if you bought two Filet o Fish combos or five large fries (they only know you didnt buy ice cream because those never work at McDonalds ;)).

 

 It doesn't track firearms sales - it CANNOT.  

The credit card processor does not get an itemized receipt of WHAT was purchased - just a total charge on the card.

An MC code simply narrows down the TYPE of retailer the card was used at.

 

A legal order would be required to coerce dealers to release receipts and invoices - and FFL dealers would simply cease accepting credit cards.

 

If this is a gun control attempt - I certainly wish the rest were so easy to sidestep.

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5 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

but CC processors are in business to make money not track how often you buy new underwear, tinfoil for your hats or firearms.


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This MCC code WAS IN FACT created as an aid to track commerce carried on by gun dealers and businesses that deal in firearms and related goods and services.  It has been openly stated that this is a fact by those who implemented the new code.

 

Whether or not it works as intended doesn’t change the fact that this is what was it was created for.

 

For that, it is only fair that folks like us should feel resentment for these people and the businesses they run, influence, or control.  Those of us who choose to avoid dealing with them or who wish to boycott or otherwise restrain trade with such people and the companies that they run are well within our rights to do so and to try to convince others like us to do the same!!

 

My decision to not use these companies and their services deprives them of income!!  If they charge the customary 3% of each sale where their card is used, that’s $3.00 on a $100.00 purchase. 
 

I’ve heard it estimated that between eighty-five and one hundred million people in this country own guns.  If most of ‘em are like me, they spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars a year in the places of business that this “code” is applied to.

 

If every one of us paid only cash for these purchases, and we each spent a thousand dollars, that would potentially deprive these card companies of three billion dollars a year!!  That loss, spread across four major card companies, still amounts to an average of over $700,000,000.00 dollars per year!

 

That $30.00 that I don’t give to some greedy credit card company may not be much, but it makes me happy!  I could get a whole lot happier if every man jack of us gun owners would do the same thing!  And if we all did it for EVERY purchase we make, I feel certain that those people and their companies would sit up and take notice!

 

Wishful thinking, I’m sure, but I’ll continue to do my part.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

The MCC code WAS IN FACT created as and aid to track commerce carried on by gun dealers and businesses that deal in firearms and related goods and services.  It has been openly stated that this is a fact, by those who implemented the new code.

 

I love the emphatic IN FACT like the point you are attempting to make was in doubt.

 

No one has said or claimed otherwise.

The debate comes with the question of WHY?

 

Merchant Codes have existed since the advent of credit card usage.

New codes and further delineation/ definition of merchant accounts occurs constantly and regularly.

 

The creation of a new code for firearns retailers is only surprising in the fact that it didn't exist earlier.

Merchant codes and tracking is not limited to firearms retailers but exists within most specialty industries.

 

Food services have their sales coded and tracked.

Gas stations have their sales coded and tracked.

Hotels/ Hospitality have their sales coded and tracked.

Medical services have their sales coded and tracked.

Auto repair has their sales coded and tracked.

So on and so on ad nauseam.

 

Wail to the heavens - gnash your teeth.

Cut up your cards and go cash only.

But understand what you are railing against and its actual VERY LIMITED impact on anything affecting you.

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9 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I get my information from MY CREDIT CARD PROCESSORS. 

I own a gunshop - do you?

I have also been involved in the credit card industry for the last 10 years in other capacities - have you?

 

The Merchant code simply will say this sale took place at a firearms retailer - the processor has ZERO way to know whether you spent $1200 on a gun safe or an AR.

 

Where did your information come from?

You Tube theorists and fear mongers.

 

Before you repeat incorrect information and run about claiming the sky is falling - exercise a bit of research and have some rudimentary knowledge of the topic.

I wouldn't buy a firearm from your place for sure. I'm done on this. When a gunshop owner doesn't as yourself doesn't question why suddenly firearm purchases and ammo are being targeted and not whatever else you sell in your place. I know the big 2 dealers down here don't like it and wonder what its leading to.  

I'm done on this subject, apparently Creeker is the expert and not to worry why will calm us down and have all the answers.

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@Creeker, SASS #43022 is correct about vendor coding. 
For years I carried a credit for work. I worked for public transit agencies. These agencies and these card companies that provide service to public agencies used vendor and product codes to track purchases. 
For instance, if you went into a liquor stores to purchases anything the sale was flagged and denied and your company was notified. If you went to any store and tried to purchase food items, including water, your purchases would not go through until it was rung up minus the food items. 
Credit card companies track all types of purchases through coding. You don’t think they don’t have info on everyone that pays for internet porn, alcohol, tobacco, drug making supplies and equipment, etc? 
When was the last time you heard “The bombing was thwarted by Visa because they notified they FBI that the bomber bought his fertilizer at Happy Gardens Fun Time Center”? When was the last time you heard “The child molester was caught because of his online activity purchases of ‘deviant porn’ using his Master Card.”? You haven’t, because they don’t do that. 
They use this coding to track trends for marketing and tailoring their products to the user. And I would bet they see all the liabilities that gun makers get slapped with after shootings and they want to have info to fight any lawsuits that claim they participated in or funded a shooting. 
 

I don’t like what they are doing but I am not going to lose my mind over it. 
 

Some of these companies were already doing  before the media got a hold of it to spin everybody up. Since 9/11 the media had been an enemy to the freedom living people of America and you can’t tell me it’s not by design. Division deflects attention from government and from what big money business is doing to the people, not for the people. 
This country was coming together after 9/11 and Soros and Commie scum like him including our own political parties couldn’t have that so the divisiveness was turned up and now we are where we are. 

 

I have 2 credit cards that sit in a box. I am waiting for the card company to cancel them. They have a zero balance. Both of these cards offered by American Airlines and Jet Blue and are through Barclays Bank. 

I have cards through Citi, Capital One and Chase that I use. 
Years ago, before all this latest BS about tracking purchases my 2 cards via Barclays would deny purchases at gun stores. The clerk would say it didn’t go through. I would call the card company to see what the problem is. The response was always something like “There was a communication error.” Or “It must be a problem on the seller’s end.” When, in fact, they were tracking gun purchases and gun store purchases and denying them through their “vendor coding” or “point of sale coding”. 

 

Do as you wish but look at who is pushing this news. Do they stand to make a buck by spinning you up?

Figure out which cards won’t work for you and don’t use them. Cost them money and time for a change. Toss them in a drawer and forget about them. OR go all cash and move on. Life’s to short for this crap. 

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I have Discover and I get cash back every month and I also pay it off every month. I have a MC from Capital One that I use for gas at BJ's wholesale club. The gas is .20 cents or more cheaper than anywhere else. I never use my credit cards for a gun purchase I always use cash but I have used them for ammo or mags etc.

I'm not worried at all and BTW I agree with Creeker.

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16 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

I'll be curious to see the number of gun owners that will drop these cards to show their response? Bet there be very few?

I already have dropped all but two, and I never buy anything gun related with them.  Most of the time I buy things with cash or a bank check.

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10 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

 

Well, it depends on who it is you've "been following along"....

Following the process of repeatedly petitioning the ISO for this MCC, who has been pushing for and against it, how they plan to use it.

 

Alamagated Bank was the petitioner, supported by Everytown for gun safety, Moms demand action, Guns down America, Giffords law center,  democrats support.

 

Against it were Mastercard, Visa, AmEx, NSSF, republicans.

 

Go back and read their statements.  They want the private financial sector to use the MCC to report suspicious purchasers they described as extremists, terrorists, straw purchasers, arsenal builders....

 

It is no surprise gun stores have been lumped with sporting goods for so long.  It keeps card companies out of a political fight about a legal product.  

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Please excuse me for having not stated my objection plainly enough!  This MCC code was instituted in order to identify and single out gun purchases AND eventually make it so that that identification could be used to create or aid in the creation of a gun registry!!  That is the “WHY” and there is little point in debating this because it is plainly stated by those who pushed for it!

 

This was publicized by the people who are responsible for the change in MCC coding!  They are, quite openly, “anti-gun owner” and anti Second Amendment and they don’t try to hide it!

 

I cut up my credit cards more than twenty-five years ago! It doesn’t matter to me WHAT their intentions are as far as how I pay for my purchases because it doesn’t change how I do business!!  I only keep a debit card in case I encounter an emergency where I’m unable to quickly lay my hands on enough cash to cover some unforeseen expense and to pay for fuel so I don’t have to walk into the station/store and stand in a line!

 

For this, that $30.00 figure I quoted in my previous post becomes $1,500.00 or more a year if I’m careful how I negotiate and make my purchases. Some retailers and many service providers are willing to give discounts for cash and I’m willing to ask when I pay cash. The worst they can do is say no. You still often see signs at fueling locations that offer a discount for cash fuel purchases, as one example of what I’m saying.

 

As to “wail to the heavens-gnash your teeth” , this is the only time that I’ve actually even said anything, AND NOTHING I HAVE SAID HAS CONTRADICTED ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID!  I simply made a point about the FACT that these people have openly stated that their intention is to work toward a gun registry, the eventual destruction of the Second Amendment, and the end of private gun ownership!!

 

  AND!!! I cut up my credit cards long before any of this became an issue. By doing so, I have saved lots of money. Money that I have spent on things I otherwise might never have been able to afford!  The only note I have is my house note and my credit rating has soared! Hardly wailing or gnashing my teeth!^_^

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Imma gonna go buy a new AR with my MC today. :D

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MCC codes are on the processor side, not the consumer side.

 

The purpose is to establish charges for processing transactions based on business risk such as amount disputed charges. does the retailer pay 1%? 3%? 5%?

 

Or is the business not worth it?

 

My concern with this MCC code is public pressure might cause processors to not want the business due to public perception. This is what I see as the Everytown et. al. angle. Try to force the processors to not provide processing services to gun stores. This will force gun stores to use processors charging higher fees.

 

It does not directly affect what cards are in our pockets, but it could turn into a degree of harassment and paying cash would then be a right action.

 

As to creating a registry... The 4473 forms are already much closer to creating one. I will feel different if LE knocks on my door investigating suspicious purchases reported by credit processors.

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