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When the hypothetical happens


Dirty Dan Dawkins

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Awww, but Lamarion was a good boy.  He just wasn't understood.  He wanted to make a better life for hisself.  He was gettin' ready to go to school to be a pharmacist.  -_-  :wacko:

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A lot of people here carry openly, but I've noticed that most of the ones who do travel with companions who are also carrying, either openly or concealed.

 

Or maybe I just don't know how many carry concealed like I do and no one knows for sure.....as it should be.

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Georgia just passed Constitutional Carry last year.  I suspect there are a lot more people carrying now that may have never bothered to jump through the hoops to get a permit.  Having a nice looking pistol hanging off your belt would make you a target for theft from the skreet people.  I certainly wouldn't go to Atlanta without carrying but I always carry concealed.  

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Even though open carry is allowed in WV and technically legal in PA, I rarely see anyone doing it. 

When I took my CCW class the instructor asked “Does anyone here open carry?”.
One guy said he did.

The instructor asked “Why?”

The guy said he did because he didn’t have a CCW permit and that he didn’t feel comfortable carrying concealed without a permit even though West Virginia is a “Constitutional Carry” state. 
I have never heard anyone use logic like this. Though the guy did say he was a coal truck driver and occasionally ended up crossing into PA, so I can see that logic but he said he carried openly off the job in WV. 
The instructor then went about discussing why open carry could be a bad idea. The story @Dirty Dan Dawkinsposted was one of the “what if” scenarios the instructor discussed. He then told a humorous but dark Jake about some guy at the pearly gates that had been shot with his own gun. 

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When temperature and humidity both top 90, I'm most likely to be carrying openly.

 

At the same time, I am less likely to go outside my normal patterns and destinations. I then also avoid tourist zones and unfamiliar places.

 

For me, a primary reason for concealing is not having to get into discussions with other carriers comparing carry guns and "carry curious" people. Always am polite when this happens, but I really do want to just go about my business.

 

It also saddens me when I see people take an abrupt change in direction away from me when they spot my carry.

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Open carry?  Or inadvertent flash of concealed carry?  Article doesn't say.  
We all rail about the anti-gun laws based on emotion brought on by the tiny portion of one percent who make illegal use of firearms.  A quick google search gave me three incidents of open carry snatches over a period of about ten years.  OHMYGAWD!!!  Open carry invites gun theft!  Ban it!  That's my impression.  A very rare event and BOOM! it is a bad idea and nobody should do it. 

 

I wonder how many people who carry concealed have had their guns take from them by a crook?  Maybe later I'll check around.  If I can find one would that be a case against concealed carry?

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53 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Open carry?  Or inadvertent flash of concealed carry?  Article doesn't say.  
We all rail about the anti-gun laws based on emotion brought on by the tiny portion of one percent who make illegal use of firearms.  A quick google search gave me three incidents of open carry snatches over a period of about ten years.  OHMYGAWD!!!  Open carry invites gun theft!  Ban it!  That's my impression.  A very rare event and BOOM! it is a bad idea and nobody should do it. 

 

I wonder how many people who carry concealed have had their guns take from them by a crook?  Maybe later I'll check around.  If I can find one would that be a case against concealed carry?

 

The article does say the teen saw the firearm in his waistband. That's not typically what I think of as open carry. That sounds more like an IWB holster. I suppose one could use that for open carry, but why?

 

The other important aspect aspect of concealed carry (and I would think especially open carry) is to be aware of your surroundings and the proximity of others to you.

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Bad story, no question! And Orr is to blame in the first place. But...

 

... following the guy who's just disarmed you doesn't seem to be the brightest idea to me: 'Dykes reportedly chased Orr outside.' How will this turn out in court? Orr wanted to flee from the place, so Dykes' life wasn't threatened anymore in that moment. A struggle ensued, meaning that Dykes must have attacked Orr. Sounds somehow like self-defense..? A lot of food for lawyers!

 

39 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Open carry?  Or inadvertent flash of concealed carry?  Article doesn't say. 

When open carrying, one should take the level of retention security of the holster of choice into consideration, just saying.

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12 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

When open carrying, one should take the level of retention security of the holster of choice into consideration, just saying.

For sure

There is little security in open top, thumb break or simply tension-only holsters.

 

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I have been open carrying for 30 years. Always in a good leather with a thumb strap. I've never had anybody even come close to trying to take my gun. I nearly always get complimented on it, and over the years had only 2 people who had a problem wit it. There have also been at least 3 times that I know that the very sight of my gun have caused some miscreant to reconsider his plans. 

Since the article said, "From his waistband" I think that he just had it shoved into his pants like you see on TV and in the movies. NOT a very good training source. 

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I don't open carry because I don't want people to know that I'm armed.

 

Way I figure it, the criminal is most likely carrying their weapon concealed also. I'd prefer that me being armed came as a surprise to a criminal if I ever have to use my gun.

 

If you are open carrying your gun, everyone knows that you are armed...including the criminal. Some say it's a deterrent, some say that the open carrying citizen will be the first one shot...I'd rather not be the test subject to find out.

 

While many of ya'll live in rural areas, I don't. There isn't anywhere locally that there are just a few people, there are always people around you most of the time. Unless you have 360 vision, there's no way to watch all of the people that get close to you. If the criminal chooses to do so, grabbing an openly holstered firearm would be fairly easy and criminals know about retention holsters also, so don't fool yourself into thinking they don't.

 

These days with the tracking devices and locally crowded areas, being followed to your residence by a criminal that has seen your exposed firearm is a real possibility. Kind of like having NRA or gun decals all over your vehicle. After a little surveillance, they hit the treasure trove of guns and whatever else they want to steal. 

 

The above reasons are the reasons that I won't open carry regardless if it's legal. Right now, it's illegal in Florida but there is a real possibility of Florida becoming a Constitutional Carry state in the coming months. I do range duties as a safety (etc) officer at a local public outdoor range. From what I've seen at the range, about a 1/4 of the people who come out to the range are dangerous enough with their firearm that they should attend firearm training and safety courses. These are the same people that will be able to legally carry their  firearm if CC becomes legal. That concerns me more than the armed criminal possibility.

 

I really don't know if Florida is ready for Constitutional Carry but, from what it looks like, it better get ready...real quick like.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, DocWard said:

The article does say the teen saw the firearm in his waistband. That's not typically what I think of as open carry.

 

Kind of what I thought, although, when I see that someone is carrying a gun "in the waistband" the first thing that comes to mind is a gun just shoved into the waistband, no holster.

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1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Open carry?  Or inadvertent flash of concealed carry?  Article doesn't say.  
We all rail about the anti-gun laws based on emotion brought on by the tiny portion of one percent who make illegal use of firearms.  A quick google search gave me three incidents of open carry snatches over a period of about ten years.  OHMYGAWD!!!  Open carry invites gun theft!  Ban it!  That's my impression.  A very rare event and BOOM! it is a bad idea and nobody should do it. 

 

I wonder how many people who carry concealed have had their guns take from them by a crook?  Maybe later I'll check around.  If I can find one would that be a case against concealed carry?

Interesting. The only one being “emotional” here is you. Who said “ban open carry”? I know I didn’t. 

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4 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Interesting. The only one being “emotional” here is you. Who said “ban open carry”? I know I didn’t. 

 

Um....I'm not pointing to this and condemning open carry.

 

I'll plead guilty to hyperbole to point out how ridiculous I think the reactions against open carry are.  I did say that was my impression of what many said.   I'm pretty sure that none of those who oppose open carry actually said or thought, "OHMYGAWD!!!!"either.   

Just literary artifice.

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I, most often, carry openly. I seldom wear more than a T-shirt and jeans. If it is zero outside and I’m going to be out in it for an extended period, I’ll wear a heavy shirt.  The only time I wear a coat or jacket is when I’m riding my motorcycle.

 

I work with and around machinery, so my shirt is tucked in and I only wear loose clothing on very rare occasions.

 

As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, I stay aware of my surroundings and of people moving through my space.  I mostly move about in the old “condition yellow” state of awareness. Having done so for many years, it has become natural. When my home state passed its carry laws, I went out and got my permit and have maintained it, even after we became a “Constitutional Carry” state. It has always been a carry permit, not just a concealed carry permit. So I’ve always mostly carried openly.  If I walk into a room, I naturally pause and look around in every direction to be sure that I don’t ignore some potentially dangerous situation.  These days, I only seldom notice that I am doing this, but others have mentioned that they have seen me doing it. It is what I learned and taught myself to do as a responsible gun owner and permitted carrier.

 

My father was a police officer for most of his life and I learned much from him as he carried,  both openly and concealed the whole time I knew him, until he was unable to take care of himself.  For my family, open carry is second nature.  
 

Even my ultra left wing sister carried openly!! She was once a state game warden! :lol:  For all of her liberal leanings, she still recognizes the need for the Second Amendment.

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55 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, I stay aware of my surroundings and of people moving through my space.  I mostly move about in the old “condition yellow” state of awareness. Having done so for many years, it has become natural. When my home state passed its carry laws, I went out and got my permit and have maintained it, even after we became a “Constitutional Carry” state. It has always been a carry permit, not just a concealed carry permit. So I’ve always mostly carried openly.  If I walk into a room, I naturally pause and look around in every direction to be sure that I don’t ignore some potentially dangerous situation.  These days, I only seldom notice that I am doing this, but others have mentioned that they have seen me doing it. It is what I learned and taught myself to do as a responsible gun owner and permitted carrier.

I'm the same way. Arizona has been an "Open Carry" state longer than I have been here. Frankly, that's one of the reasons I live here. Like Blackwater, I also have my CCW, even though I open carry. It makes it easier when I go to buy a gun, as I don't have to bother with the NICS check. It allows me to carry a few more places, and if I were to ever have to use my gun, it would show the responding Officers that I'm a Good Guy. 

I also stay in "condition yellow", though again, as Blackwater has said, it's become almost by second nature. I actually had to turn it DOWN a few years ago.

My job as a truck driver delivering compressed gas cylinders took me into grocery stores delivering Helium to flower shops. My boss, whom I truly despised, (he felt the same about me), would tell me that the Flower Shop Girls, (mostly Mexican), would call complaining that I made them feel threatened. I have a Marine Corps voice, and I guess that the way it projects made them nervous.

But I found out what it REALLY was from a nice older Mexican women who ran a Jewelry Shop. The first time I met her, she asked me if I was a Soldier. When I told her I was a Marine, she declared that she could tell. She said it was my eyes. I looked like I was always looking around for the enemy. SHE didn't have a problem with it. 

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27 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

*snip* ....she asked me if I was a Soldier.

When I told her I was a Marine, she declared that she could tell.

She said it was my eyes.

I looked like I was always looking around for the enemy. SHE didn't have a problem with it. 

You're not the first one to tell me this exact same thing.

You're not the only one to be TOLD this exact same thing.

I'm still asked where I'm a cop.

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12 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Concealed carry always!

 

11 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

A lot of people here carry openly, but I've noticed that most of the ones who do travel with companions who are also carrying, either openly or concealed.

 

Or maybe I just don't know how many carry concealed like I do and no one knows for sure.....as it should be.

It depends on what you mean by a lot?  Here in Fallon I see a few people who open carry.  It's more common in Virginia City but most handguns are SAA's & clones.  Occasionally you'll see barbecue guns.  When it is hot I carry a sub compact in an ankle holster below the top of my boots.  Not the idle location for rapid retrieval.

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10 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Even though open carry is allowed in WV and technically legal in PA, I rarely see anyone doing it. 

When I took my CCW class the instructor asked “Does anyone here open carry?”.
One guy said he did.

The instructor asked “Why?”

The guy said he did because he didn’t have a CCW permit and that he didn’t feel comfortable carrying concealed without a permit even though West Virginia is a “Constitutional Carry” state. 
I have never heard anyone use logic like this. Though the guy did say he was a coal truck driver and occasionally ended up crossing into PA, so I can see that logic but he said he carried openly off the job in WV. 
The instructor then went about discussing why open carry could be a bad idea. The story @Dirty Dan Dawkinsposted was one of the “what if” scenarios the instructor discussed. He then told a humorous but dark Jake about some guy at the pearly gates that had been shot with his own gun. 

Open carrying in any city where there are very few who do is asking for hassles.  There are too many hoplophobes who will call 911 to report a person walking around with a firearm.  I open carry when taking my dogs for a walk in the desert outside my property to deal with venomous snakes.

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9 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

Bad story, no question! And Orr is to blame in the first place. But...

 

... following the guy who's just disarmed you doesn't seem to be the brightest idea to me: 'Dykes reportedly chased Orr outside.' How will this turn out in court? Orr wanted to flee from the place, so Dykes' life wasn't threatened anymore in that moment. A struggle ensued, meaning that Dykes must have attacked Orr. Sounds somehow like self-defense..? A lot of food for lawyers!

 

When open carrying, one should take the level of retention security of the holster of choice into consideration, just saying.

Self defense is not an available defense in court because, the Orr stole the gun.  When the "self defense" is subsequent to a crime it nullifies the self defense.

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2 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

Open carrying in any city where there are very few who do is asking for hassles.  There are too many hoplophobes who will call 911 to report a person walking around with a firearm.  I open carry when taking my dogs for a walk in the desert outside my property to deal with venomous snakes.

People don’t get too excited around here about open carry from what I see and hear. The ones I have seen carrying openly didn’t seem to attract much attention at all. 

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8 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

Self defense is not an available defense in court because, the Orr stole the gun.  When the "self defense" is subsequent to a crime it nullifies the self defense.

 

We have recently seen where this does not hold true in california. :mellow:

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