Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

TG Engagement


Smokestack SASS#87384

Recommended Posts

51 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Should SASS publish the clubs/TG names and how each voted on the items that go out to them for voting? Doing this would add some accountability and I believe would increase participation among the TGs. What are your thoughts? 

I have lobbied for exactly this for 20 years.

 

Specifically when a club I was a member of had a TG that claimed in public to have voted the clubs wishes; but in private bragged about his superior knowledge and voting as he wished - because he had a better understanding of the rules than club members.

 

When the TG is our only interaction to rule making - it is frustrating to endure secrecy and hidden agendas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

a TG that claimed in public to have voted the clubs wishes; but in private bragged about his superior knowledge and voting as he wished

Sounds like politics as usual to me :ph34r: Someone gets elected based on his/her pledges, and then does whatever (s)he wants...

So, yes, transparent voting is always a good thing!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't want to sound like the kid from Mayberry who just got off the bus, but why wasn't this information always available? I never looked for it but it also never occurred to me that it wasn't available. 

At TEAM SASS we specifically LOOK for role call votes on legislation. Not sure how this would be different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This idea is an encouragment for both the TGs and the shooters. Besides accountability for the TGs, for shooters, seeing the results should spur more involvement. The only problem I can see is that clubs that do not shoot year round use email to reach their posses because the voting always seems to take place in the winter months. Where voting in person shows immediate majority preference. So, if using email, whether only a hand full of posse members vote or if everyone votes, there's no way to have an idea how the majority voted unless providing those figure would also become a part of the vote whether via email or in person.  I'm a member of one posse that voted via email.  The number of voters responding was in the LOW single digits.  Another posse voted in person at an indoor match where everyone voted.
Is it possible change the time to vote to when most clubs are active to perhaps get a better voting response?
If relying upon email, can a prepared ballot be used in order to eliminate any misinterpretation of the topics? 
I'm just trying to think this idea through in order to achieve more accurate results all the way through.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a TG I take the responsibility seriously. I gave my opinion,  polled club members, and voted their preference. (Which was no to both)

 

I do think TGs can & do  influence the vote by the way they present it, but I think 99% (if not 100%!) would vote Their clubs preference.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our TG always asks our opinion and to my knowledge votes accordingly. Thanks Doc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Hoss said:

As a TG I take the responsibility seriously. I gave my opinion,  polled club members, and voted their preference. (Which was no to both)

 

I do think TGs can & do  influence the vote by the way they present it, but I think 99% (if not 100%!) would vote Their clubs preference.  

I'm confident that the TGs of the clubs where we shoot faithfully reflect the members' vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

Sounds to me like a solution in search of a problem, and an unnecessary potential source of friction between clubs.  A TG who cannot be trusted by her club shouldn't be a TG, period.

And as Reagan said; trust but verify.

 

How exactly would a club know a TG was trustworthy in the absence of a recorded and public accounting?

 

Too many are willing to trust others "because they are a cowboy" like somehow the wearing of a hat or sharing of a past time vouches for their values or character.

 

A representative is there to "represent" their constituents. 

The ONLY way to know whether that is actually occurring is to look at the votes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

And as Reagan said; trust but verify.

 

How exactly would a club know a TG was trustworthy in the absence of a recorded and public accounting?

 

Too many are willing to trust others "because they are a cowboy" like somehow the wearing of a hat or sharing of a past time vouches for their values or character.

 

A representative is there to "represent" their constituents. 

The ONLY way to know whether that is actually occurring is to look at the votes.

If you don't know how to gauge the character and honesty and trustworthiness of your TG without Nanny State Big Brother surveillance, I'm afraid I have nothing to offer you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Our TG always asks our opinion and to my knowledge votes accordingly. Thanks Doc.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I'm confident that the TGs of the clubs where we shoot faithfully reflect the members' vote.

 

Not insulting or denigrating anyones TG - but what is anyone basing their knowledge or confidence on?  

Their feelings?  Personal like of their TG?

 

Because unless this faith has something backing it up - it's just hoping for the best and trying to avoid making waves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

 

 

Not insulting or denigrating anyones TG - but what is anyone basing their knowledge or confidence on?  

Their feelings?  Personal like of their TG?

 

Because unless this faith has something backing it up - it's just hoping for the best and trying to avoid making waves.

I have no interest in speaking with you, nor in hearing your opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

If you don't know how to gauge the character and honesty and trustworthiness of your TG without Nanny State Big Brother surveillance, I'm afraid I have nothing to offer you.

Do you apply the same litmus test to your other elected officials?

As long as they wear the same brand of jeans as you and use the "aw shucks" folksy interactions - they must be alright.  No need to look into their history or voting record.

 

Your daughters boyfriend?

As long as he doesn't obviously steal anything while he's at your house - no need to keep any tabs on him.

Wouldn't want any big brother surveillance to make him uncomfortable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

If you don't know how to gauge the character and honesty and trustworthiness of your TG without Nanny State Big Brother surveillance, I'm afraid I have nothing to offer you.

I think it's possible to agree with someone's proposition, in this case Smokestack's, without necessarily feeling it's applicable in your particular situation. Our TGs are friends.  I completely trust them, sounds like yours are too.  Having said that, it's certainly possible that there are clubs out there that are big enough for that not to be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The two TGs of the clubs which I belong, I feel have the highest of integrity and see no reason to have to check up on them. Again, thank you Doc & Joe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you become "engaged" to a TG, it should be a public affair.  The proposal should be done at one of the Disney parks.  Bended Knee and Rings.  All that stuff.  Obviously, I don't think matters one whit.  This is SASS's game.  SASS owns it, lock, stock and double barrel and will do what ever "they" want.  Get Over It

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Do you apply the same litmus test to your other elected officials?

As long as they wear the same brand of jeans as you and use the "aw shucks" folksy interactions - they must be alright.  No need to look into their history or voting record.

 

Your daughters boyfriend?

As long as he doesn't obviously steal anything while he's at your house - no need to keep any tabs on him.

Wouldn't want any big brother surveillance to make him uncomfortable.

There's money and politics involved with my elected officials and therefore have doubts about their integrity unfortunately. TGs don't get a thing for all the work they put in for our benefit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Black Hills Barb said:


 

 

12 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Should SASS publish the clubs/TG names and how each voted on the items that go out to them for voting? Doing this would add some accountability and I believe would increase participation among the TGs. What are your thoughts? 

 

2 hours ago, Black Hills Barb said:

I'm a member of one posse that voted via email.  The number of voters responding was in the LOW single digits.  Another posse voted in person at an indoor match where everyone voted.
Is it possible change the time to vote to when most clubs are active to perhaps get a better voting response?
If relying upon email, can a prepared ballot be used in order to eliminate any misinterpretation of the topics? 
I'm just trying to think this idea through in order to achieve more accurate results all the way through.
 

 

I'm a TG of two smaller clubs. I sent out 47 emails (out of the 59 members I could find emails for) on two different occasions that contained all the information for both voting items. I posted on both clubs Facebook pages that if they didn't get an email from me that they should contact me and I would make sure that they were included.

I got 10 votes in response.

 

My guess is that most club members didn't have a dog in the fight. They don't shoot black powder or have a junior that wants to shoot gunfighter so it didn't matter to them how the vote came out. The turnout maybe better next time there is a vote.

Maybe it would have helped to change the voting to the summer months but I doubt that would change the voting results of this particular vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The TG's around here do a good job, I think, of explaining some of the background for the issues, instead of just the yes/no question.  A lot (most?) of the club members do not read the Wire where we discuss some of those background reasons.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ya Big Tree said:

 

 

 

I'm a TG of two smaller clubs. I sent out 47 emails (out of the 59 members I could find emails for) on two different occasions that contained all the information for both voting items. I posted on both clubs Facebook pages that if they didn't get an email from me that they should contact me and I would make sure that they were included.

I got 10 votes in response.

 

My guess is that most club members didn't have a dog in the fight. They don't shoot black powder or have a junior that wants to shoot gunfighter so it didn't matter to them how the vote came out. The turnout maybe better next time there is a vote.

Maybe it would have helped to change the voting to the summer months but I doubt that would change the voting results of this particular vote.

+1000 on this!  I sent out emails to everyone on the lists for my two clubs - responses amounted to just under 10%.  Our communications director then put together an actual on-line survey that was sent out to those who hadn't responded...the response rate for the survey was 46% Apparently, most folks respond better to taking surveys than to answering emails - food for thought there!  Either way, though, just about 1/2 of our shooters didn't care to respond.  From the numbers we recorded, it seems that the BP Standard question was a "yawner" for many of our folks - we actually had some abstentions on that one, with the final vote perfectly matching the overall SASS vote percentages.  The Jr. Gunfighter question wound up in the 60-40% range, against.  

Going back to the point of the OP, we always publish the results of TG votes on our club website, and our club vote totals/how I cast my TG ballots are included in my TG report at our annual Cowboy meeting.  Nothing to hide here.

 

CS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to kick TGs in the sack, I was in contact with the TG for my club, I sent an email to club members for their opinion on the 2 items. 26 people were emailed I had 4 respond so maybe just maybe club members didn't give a darn as to what the outcome was to be.  So I would be inclined to think that maybe the TGs that didn't vote didn't get any feedback from club members? But yes I'm all for posting how the TGs vote on all subjects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A HUGE percentage of the TG's - just like folks in SASS, folks on the Wire and, for that matter, people as a whole are GOOD, DECENT people.

 

But just like folks in general, in SASS and on the wire - there are some whom you will not care for or don't care for you.

That does not make these folks any less decent as people - but it does make one question if their interests coincide with your own.

 

There is zero harm in requesting accountability from an elected position that exists to represent their clubs desires - this is also useful when the TG does not receive adequate direction from their clubs or has to make a decision on the fly because circumstances or wording changed.  It allows insight and discussion into the philosophy of the TG if they have to make the call on their own.

 

Don't take insult where none is offered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the last club match that I was at our TG announced that out of all the shooters in a couple of clubs that she represents she got 4 responses. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Totes Magoats said:

With only 54% TG’s representing their clubs by voting on these two items, I would like to know if my TG was one that didn’t even respond. 
 

Totes

 

Ask your TG directly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m going to have to go with @Creeker, SASS #43022 on this one.  TG’s responses from emails is one thing, but seeing a list of the TG, the represented club(s) and how that TG voted is another.  If the TG is voting as the members want that’s great, if they are not the members should know it.  If a member doesn’t care about a proposed change then so be it and they won’t care how the TG voted.  I wouldn’t think it would be very hard to compile and publish a list.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

At the last club match that I was at our TG announced that out of all the shooters in a couple of clubs that she represents she got 4 responses. 

Yep, that happen alot too.  Only a few club members responded back when reached out to.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.