Texas Jack Black Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I have seen the main spring screw located in the front of the carrier removed .Why is this done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Most likely fell out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Most likely fell out Guns still ran very smooth for years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said: Guns still ran very smooth for years? The mainspring on the 97 is a leaf style spring that resides in a channel most of the length of the carrier. The screw I believe you are speaking of is the strain screw for tension. Assuming a stock spring or at minimum - one without over hourglassing and polishing - the gun could run perfectly well without the strain screw. And while the strain screw effectively "doubles" as a retention screw - it really is not required to retain the mainspring. The mainspring attaches it self to the hammer assembly via ears over a hinged T spur (within a trapped compartment) - it is not going to escape the carrier without breaking these ears and additionally as anyone who has ever changed these out can attest; the leading edge of the mainspring also has a lip that adds friction to the retention within the mainspring channel - the mainspring (especially a heavy stock one) does not come out easily or without effort. So I could certainly envision a 97 that has run for years missing this strain screw with no ill effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 interesting to know , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: The mainspring on the 97 is a leaf style spring that resides in a channel most of the length of the carrier. The screw I believe you are speaking of is the strain screw for tension. Assuming a stock spring or at minimum - one without over hourglassing and polishing - the gun could run perfectly well without the strain screw. And while the strain screw effectively "doubles" as a retention screw - it really is not required to retain the mainspring. The mainspring attaches it self to the hammer assembly via ears over a hinged T spur (within a trapped compartment) - it is not going to escape the carrier without breaking these ears and additionally as anyone who has ever changed these out can attest; the leading edge of the mainspring also has a lip that adds friction to the retention within the mainspring channel - the mainspring (especially a heavy stock one) does not come out easily or without effort. So I could certainly envision a 97 that has run for years missing this strain screw with no ill effects. Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm Part 75 puts tension on the main (hammer) spring (59). That spring connects to the hammer (81) via part 67. The 97's were designed for very hard primers, so they had a very strong hammer hit. So strong that it will wear the gun much more quickly than is needed with modern shells. Removing the tension spring helps but the better solution is to put in a much lighter strength hammer spring. Then you can make slight adjustments with the tension screw if needed - for cold weather, etc. http://marauder.homestead.com/files/1897.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said: http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm Part 75 puts tension on the main (hammer) spring (59). That spring connects to the hammer (81) via part 67. The 97's were designed for very hard primers, so they had a very strong hammer hit. So strong that it will wear the gun much more quickly than is needed with modern shells. Removing the tension spring helps but the better solution is to put in a much lighter strength hammer spring. Then you can make slight adjustments with the tension screw if needed - for cold weather, etc. http://marauder.homestead.com/files/1897.gif Do you know who sells these lighter hammer springs for the 97 ? Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 When the screw loosened up on Ellie's 97, the hammer failed to fall all the way causing FTFs. Took me a bit to find the issue and then noticed the hammer at rest was back about a sixteenth. Tightened the screw until it was flush with the sides of the channel it's in and all is well again. FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 8 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said: Do you know who sells these lighter hammer springs for the 97 ? Thank You Not off hand anymore. It is even hard to get a standard spring compared to the good 'ol days. If you have a rotory tool, some various grains of sand paper and patience, they are relatively easy to make lighter. You just have to go slowly and be sure to polish away in marks that would result in stress fractures. There are some good smiths that still work on them and they may jump in to help you. (Outlaw Gambler?) Maybe Griner Gun Works….. New Mexico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 12 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said: Not off hand anymore. It is even hard to get a standard spring compared to the good 'ol days. If you have a rotory tool, some various grains of sand paper and patience, they are relatively easy to make lighter. You just have to go slowly and be sure to polish away in marks that would result in stress fractures. There are some good smiths that still work on them and they may jump in to help you. (Outlaw Gambler?) Maybe Griner Gun Works….. New Mexico I thank you once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 22 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said: http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm Part 75 puts tension on the main (hammer) spring (59). That spring connects to the hammer (81) via part 67. The 97's were designed for very hard primers, so they had a very strong hammer hit. So strong that it will wear the gun much more quickly than is needed with modern shells. Removing the tension spring helps but the better solution is to put in a much lighter strength hammer spring. Then you can make slight adjustments with the tension screw if needed - for cold weather, etc. http://marauder.homestead.com/files/1897.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 All my 97's have this mod, to much and the trigger will not reset. Some use a small washer under the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 2:18 PM, Texas Jack Black said: I have seen the main spring screw located in the front of the carrier removed .Why is this done I call that screw the poor man's action job. Back it out until it doesn't set off your primers then screw it in a half turn. You will be amazed how much smoother the action will be. Some guns don't need it, but I leave them in just because. I had one back a couple of years back at the California state match and would not allow the bolt to open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rough 'N Ready Rob Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 On 1/22/2023 at 10:49 AM, Hells Comin said: I call that screw the poor man's action job. Back it out until it doesn't set off your primers then screw it in a half turn. You will be amazed how much smoother the action will be. Some guns don't need it, but I leave them in just because. I had one back a couple of years back at the California state match and would not allow the bolt to open. What this man said. The picture showing the sear spring hour glassed is a bad thing to do, you may get a little lighter trigger pull, but less engagement in the hammer notches, unsafe to me. The picture shows the shell stop screws are missing, right one for sure, doesn't help the way that gun runs. One other note, there is a pin in the front of the carrier that retains the main spring, drive it out, not all the way, just enough to disengage the main spring, it will come a lot easier. My 2 cent. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 This gun has won many World speed events and as many World Championships. The gun runs a little smoother with the shell stops removed, because the lifter doesn't have to compress the 2 springs when closing the action and doesn't serve any purpose unless you are stoking the 97. Hells Comin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Rough 'N Ready Rob said: What this man said. The picture showing the sear spring hour glassed is a bad thing to do, you may get a little lighter trigger pull, but less engagement in the hammer notches, unsafe to me. The picture shows the shell stop screws are missing, right one for sure, doesn't help the way that gun runs. One other note, there is a pin in the front of the carrier that retains the main spring, drive it out, not all the way, just enough to disengage the main spring, it will come a lot easier. My 2 cent. Rob The spring in the picture is thinned more than most and requires a very slick action. Yes it is a bad thing to do. It will make the gun last longer and be much easier to handle. We all know those are very bad things. It is a VERY commonly used method to tune shotguns for modern ammunition and action shooting while extending the use of the gun by reducing wear to the hammer, the frame and the carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 I put blue loctite on the one in my 97. Prevents it from coming loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: I put blue loctite on the one in my 97. Prevents it from coming loose. I did that and now I have to carry it EVERYWHERE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rough 'N Ready Rob Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 On 1/24/2023 at 10:22 AM, Hells Comin said: This gun has won many World speed events and as many World Championships. The gun runs a little smoother with the shell stops removed, because the lifter doesn't have to compress the 2 springs when closing the action and doesn't serve any purpose unless you are stoking the 97. Hells Comin I'm glad you have won all of those events. To each his own, I prefer my 97s the way John Browning designed it, safe, a little polishing and good lube it runs fast enough for me. I find no greater joy then unloading a stoked 97 as fast as you can, I can still use it for wild bunch and home protection. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Rough 'N Ready Rob said: I'm glad you have won all of those events. To each his own, I prefer my 97s the way John Browning designed it, safe, a little polishing and good lube it runs fast enough for me. I find no greater joy then unloading a stoked 97 as fast as you can, I can still use it for wild bunch and home protection. Rob You realize John Browning was not perfect? Evolution and usage develop products beyond their initial designs. The 93 was also Brownings design and had to be reworked to be "safe" and was quickly superceded by the 97. As to using a stoked 97 for Wild Bunch - that is an understandable retention of certain parts; but to infer some sense of superiority over another because you prefer your gun "as designed" (130 years ago) is questionable. As is believing an (at best) 70 year old gun is the best choice for home protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackrabbit Joe #414 Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Well, I gotta say this about Hells Comin and his 97 he is faster than all get-up and one of the best in shooting that old Winchester 1897 shot gun one at a time. Gotta says also that he's sure faster than my 97 & some of others. Waaa, Haw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rough 'N Ready Rob Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 21 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: You realize John Browning was not perfect? Evolution and usage develop products beyond their initial designs. The 93 was also Brownings design and had to be reworked to be "safe" and was quickly superceded by the 97. As to using a stoked 97 for Wild Bunch - that is an understandable retention of certain parts; but to infer some sense of superiority over another because you prefer your gun "as designed" (130 years ago) is questionable. As is believing an (at best) 70 year old gun is the best choice for home protection. Wow ! I'm sorry you think I came across as being superior, that wasn't my intent. What ever Hells Comin does to his 97 is up to him, and it looks like it's working with all the awards he has won. Like I said to each his own, I like my 97 stock and versatile, The 97 when though changes in the first years too. As for John Browning, he may not have been perfect, but one heck of a designer. We use his gun in our sport today 97 the 1911 and people are copying them, that says something and he did all that with out computers and C and C machines. We still use his designs in the military today. There are many guns used for home protection, maybe better, the 97 one in my collection, I believe if you got it, use it and I know how to work it, not bragging. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 I like versatile guns too. Having said that, all of my cowboy guns are purpose built for one thing only, CAS. My Vaqueros have no transfer bars, my 73's are shortstroked with super light triggers, my double barrel has the safety removed and the barrels cut. None of them are appropriate for much of anything other than CAS, which is the only thing I use them for. Edited to add. Be aware, whatever gun you use for home protection will be taken away from you and gone for quite some time. For that reason I would not use a competition gun. My Mossberg 930 SPX sat in a police storage locker for over a year before I got it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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