Reverend P. Babcock Chase Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Just started shot shell reloading last ;year with Clays. I have not seen any shown as available anywhere. Any one heard anything. Maybe it's all going into Ukrainian ammo. Rev. Chase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 As I understand it (and I am sure someone will be along to correct me if I am wrong) Clays is made in Australia and there are production problems (or legal issues with production) there that have prevented it's manufacture for a while now. I "heard" that there were talks of licensing it for production in the States, but that wasn't supposed to start until late this year or next. Same issues with Trail Boss and a whole list of others. It may be a while. I have been looking for either Clays or 700x for a while now and every-time it pops up somewhere, I seem to be a day late or a dollar short. Good luck, I hope you find some! Edit to add: Here is a link to another thread on the Wire about the powders that seems to list some alternatives... Trail Boss....Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 No Clays to be seen, for a few years now. Clay Dot is pretty much the same thing and has been seen in some gun stores lately (I bought a pound, all I could buy). So keep your eye out for that. There are a number of powders that are good for CAS shotshells though so it shouldn't be too hard to find a substitute. I switched from Clays to WST for shotshells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Davey Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 You might try titewad makes for a lite shotgun load similar to clays load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 And 12 gauge shotgun data for Titegroup powder (of all things, especially after Hodgdon downplayed it for shotgun loading for years) has recently become popular for light (7/8 and 1 ounce) clay target loads. See Hodgdon's web site. Has been made in sufficient quantities that over the last year it showed up in gun shops often. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Red dot, promo, clay dot can all be used in most clays loadings. Might not be 1:1, but close. I am sure there are more, but those are the ones I have always used when clays wasn’t available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said: Anyone heard anything. Yep, I've heard Hodgdon reps are directly telling customers "no Clays family of powders until at least 2024" since General Dynamics plant in Canada is "busy". good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Dust SASS 75484 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I got lucky and found some at a local shop a few months back. They said it was the first they had in a long time. Limit of three cans per person and I bought three at $33 a can. Way more than I paid the last time I bought some. I use it for pistol, rifle and shotgun for my wife’s loads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawlins Kid SASS #36107 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 When there was a problem getting Clay"s years ago I switch over to Clay Dot and been using it for P-R -Sg ever since. Nawlins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Kane Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Alliant Extra Lite is another good alternative to keep your eye out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 700X works well for nice light 12 ga CAS loads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: 700X works well for nice light 12 ga CAS loads If you can find it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holloman Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 i've been using Clays for Wild Bunch .45ACP. 4 gr behind 230gr coated bullet and my Springfield Garrison runs perfectly. Will Claydot work as well. I haven't seen any loading data for Claydot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Big Tree Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 I use Clay Dot interchangeably with Clays. Using Clays load data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 17 hours ago, Doc Holloman said: I haven't seen any loading data for Claydot. Alliant has not (yet) published Clay Dot data for handgun loads. I've found to match the speed from Clays, I have to use about 5-10% more weight of Clay Dot than I did Clays. That was for Cowboy-speed .38 special 125 grain bullets, and .45 Colt 200 grain payloads. Shotgun data for Clay Dot is very available. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawlins Kid SASS #36107 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 21 hours ago, Doc Holloman said: i've been using Clays for Wild Bunch .45ACP. 4 gr behind 230gr coated bullet and my Springfield Garrison runs perfectly. Will Claydot work as well. I haven't seen any loading data for Claydot. I found that Clays was cold sensitive in my WB 45. So about 4 yrs ago I loaded up so 45 ACP with my normal load and added .3 of gr more for the Clat Dot. So it was early Nov. temp was in the low forties. I sent up the chronograph and shot three different loads. The result was that the Clay Dot was better at keeping the speed spread lower between shots , thus the PF was more constant . Since it " a Shotgun powder" it maybe easier to find. Nawlins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Clays is AS30N from ADI. They haven't made that here in years and there isn't any date they will restart. I would look for a new powder. AS30N=ClaysAP50N = (No Hodgdon)AS50N = InternationalAP70N = UniversalAP100 = (No Hodgdon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Law Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 On 1/19/2023 at 9:06 PM, Still hand Bill said: Red dot, promo, clay dot can all be used in most clays loadings. Might not be 1:1, but close. I am sure there are more, but those are the ones I have always used when clays wasn’t available. I do my clays/ red dot 1:1 and can't tell the two apart. JEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffin Filler #51633 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I used to love Clays. It is an ideal CAS powder as it works well for both 12 ga and light pistol caliber loads. I could buy an 8 lb jug and do it all. But I had to go "off the reservation" with Clays to get light 7/8 oz loads. I was using 14.3 gr and lowest published load is 16.9 gr for 1200 fps. I bought 24 lbs of AA Light when it was available. It uses only 12.8 gr to get 1050 fps with 7/8 oz loads. This is a published load on the Hodgdon site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Stone, SASS #53366 Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 All my Clays containers say " made in Canada packaged in the USA. From my understanding Clays production was moved to Canada after the factory in Australia burnt down. They were having problems getting it up and running. Something with dryers or something as I recall. Marshal Stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronimo Jim SASS # 21775 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Any update on Clays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 None will be produced during 2023 for reloader sales. Nor the other two in the Clays family - Universal and International. You need to look for other powders. We'll be told if and when they restart lines for those powders in 2024. Per Hodgdon press releases and emails sent directly to Hodgdons recently. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Bud Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 4:50 PM, Doc Holloman said: i've been using Clays for Wild Bunch .45ACP. 4 gr behind 230gr coated bullet and my Springfield Garrison runs perfectly. Will Claydot work as well. I haven't seen any loading data for Claydot. Doc, as someone else already stated there is no published load data for using Clay Dot in handgun/pistol loads. However, it is a fairly fast shotgun powder that has great potential in handgun loads. I was able to purchase about 6 pounds of Clay Dot last summer and using published data for Clays loads and some chronograph testing to develop loads similar to my original Clays loads in .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and even in some 9mm loads. I have found Clay Dot to need a bit more powder (in the order of 3% to 5%) to match the muzzle velocities of my Clays loads. Otherwise, it's almost interchangeable. I'm still well below the maximum loads listed for Clays and have seen absolutely no signs of excess pressure. The report is mild and the recoil impulse is very similar as well. However, Clay Dot isn't quite as clean as Clays was in lighter loads, but still cleaner than my other propellants that I have used. Overall, I have been very pleased with the results using Clay Dot and will purchase more if it continues to be available. Frankly, primers are my biggest problem now and I'm going to have to find some soon even if I do have to pay through the nose for them! Good luck and good shooting to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 On 1/24/2023 at 7:32 PM, Marshal Stone, SASS #53366 said: All my Clays containers say " made in Canada packaged in the USA. From my understanding Clays production was moved to Canada after the factory in Australia burnt down. They were having problems getting it up and running. Something with dryers or something as I recall. Marshal Stone I'm curious about the Canadian factory thing. I purchased 5 pound of Clays last year from Natchez and it was from Canada. So it would seem the factory in Canada was making it last year. I've also interchanged Clay-Dot in my loads with no issue. It's slightly dirtier, but less temperature sensitive. I'm saving what I have of both for SG now and going to try Cleanshot for cartridges. Which will support Scarlett Darlin as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 A General Dynamics plant in Canada was contracted to produce Clays family of powders when the ADI powder (Australian) plant had major difficulties over last few years. Now, that GD plant has diverted the production capabilities for Clays family powders to "other non-specified markets" Hodgdon "makes" none of their smokeless powders, they contract with production companies to make canister powders for reloading. Remember, they got a start after WW II repacking surplus military rifle powders into reloading size bottles. They have continued the business model, but now they contract production of new powders with a variety of US, Canadian, European and other powder manufacturers to make reloading-specific rifle, pistol and shotgun powders. And, they have been buying up naming rights to have contractors make Winchester, IMR, Accurate, Western, Ramshot powders over the last 10 years. It's not unusual (for today's world-wide business models). Just different than how DuPont and Hercules used to own the whole integrated powder manufacturing and distribution back in the 1950s and 60s, all within the US. Soapbox: However, it does introduce major monkey wrenches into the production and sales of powder, IMHO. Any given powder now perhaps involves competition with other powder users (military, aerospace, mining, construction), perhaps more transportation, perhaps international shipping and customs clearance, perhaps conflicts between newly instituted and multiple national import and export restrictions, and with each new corporation involved in the process, the strong desire to raise prices and pass them on and act like they themselves are not responsible for all the hikes and shortages. Basically, two things that modern business has made worse - supply chain management, and plausible deniability over failures to serve the customer well. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Law Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 I bought a ton of Clay's through the Obummer years and I still have 30#+ of it left. I did however, pick up some Red Dot recently for Shyster's loads and I don't see a bit of difference at a 1:1 load compared to the Clay's. I'd just use the Red Dot, it's available and almost identical as far as I can tell. JEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 1/22/2023 at 7:38 AM, John E. Law said: I do my clays/ red dot 1:1 and can't tell the two apart. JEL me too , very little adjustment to 700x and you can find a lot of others in similar burn rate that need only be adjusted for metering , i prefer red dot but i have clays and use it now will into the future based on what i have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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