.357 Shotshells vs .410 from a revolver

[Pat Riot]

Anyone have experience with .357 shotshells vs .410 shotshells from a handgun?

 

I was thinking about a handgun for carry when shore fishing. Here in northern West Virginia one shouldn’t encounter Water Moccasins but Copperheads are a real possibility. Perhaps Timber Rattlers, but they are not that common. 
 

I was considering buying a Taurus Judge for east carry and .410 shotgun shells, but then I thought that maybe my S&W 327 with .357 shotshells might be just fine. 
 

There are only two kinds of snakes in the US that I will go out of my way to kill. The Copperhead and the Water Moccasin. Sneaky copperheads love creek and river banks. 

[Trigger Mike]

I have a S and W Governor and 410 works well on snakes .  I have not tried 357 but the Governor allows 45acp shot shells if you don’t want the 410 recoil.   
 

btw 45 acp shot shells also work in a 1911 .  I’ve tried it.

[Alpo]

38 snake shot has either a 100 grains of number 9 shot or 81 grains of number 4.

 

A two and a half inch 410 has a half ounce of shot. That's 219 grains. More than twice as much. If you're going with a 3 inch, that's 11/16 of an ounce - 300 grains. Three times as much.

 

Just seems to me that if you have a choice between two cartridges, and one of them throws a payload that is between two and three times as great, the larger one would be the better choice.

[Alpo]

 

 

Personally I think you should get it 22 and learn to hit it with one big shot, instead of relying on throwing a handful of little bitties at it.

[Pat Riot]

3 minutes ago, Alpo said:

 

 

Personally I think you should get it 22 and learn to hit it with one big shot, instead of relying on throwing a handful of little bitties at it.

That is an option. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

22 minutes ago, Alpo said:

 

 

Personally I think you should get it 22 and learn to hit it with one big shot, instead of relying on throwing a handful of little bitties at it.

Good advice, generally .22's are pretty accurate too!

[Pat Riot]

I understand that. I would like to know people’s actual experiences, if any. 

[Eyesa Horg]

A shovel works well 

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

I’ve killed a number of rattlesnakes with .357 shotshells but you have to get pretty close to make sure that you kill them with the first shot. They will work, but personally I prefer 45 Colt shotshells. Not much difference in recoil due to gun weight and more shot so you don’t have to get quite so close. Haven’t tried 410 as the only handgun I own that will fire it is a Bond Arms derringer.

[Rip Snorter]

5 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

A shovel works well 

Only thing is, I don't pack a shovel.  Near the house, a shovel or a shotgun.  Out and about, usually the 1911 with real bullets for pests because I always have it. A good point, easy enough to toss a spare shovel in the pickup.

[Grass Range]

Hook a harness snap on your left rein where it fastens to the bit. Dismount and unsnap the rein and a couple of whacks and the rattler is dead. Cut off his head, kick a hole in the ground and bury it and take the rattles. Much quieter than shooting out where there is no man made noise.

[Charlie T Waite]

I have 2 3" barreled Judges - 1 ultra light & 1 stainless the either works great for snakes, porcupines, or any pest (2 or 4 legged).  I like the stainless better for the 410 as it is a bit heavier so a little less recoil.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

Personally, I think that "The Judge" and anything like it is just stupid, an answer in search of a question. I would keep carrying my .357 with whatever load you're carrying now, and get the aforementioned Bond Derringer for the .410, and carry it too when snakes might be encountered. 

[Rip Snorter]

Simply draw a rattle snake on a grocery bag and figure out what point of aim you need.  If they are still, a head shot. If they are moving, mid body, then head.

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

I have only used .44snake shot capsules. It is very effective with #12 shot. I bagged 11 (10 copperhead and 1 water moc.) in one year at a place in Middle TN where I lived. I left the next year for more hospitable living.

 

Imis

[Adolph Vancinghand, SASS #28923]

 

ANY shot charge through ANY rifled bore is going to start to come apart as soon as it leaves the muzzle...that's centrifugal force at work.

 

I've killed diamondbacks with shotshells in .22 LR, .22 WMR, .38/357, and .45 Colt. All are most effective within 10'. Can't speak to the Judge; my only .410 experience in a handgun is in a .45 Colt/.410 Contender with an internal choke that stops the rotation of the shot charge...that's a beast at 15-20 YARDS. I even used it on the skeet field (although doubles were obviously out of the question!). 

 

My two cents... 

[Pat Riot]

2 hours ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

I’ve killed a number of rattlesnakes with .357 shotshells but you have to get pretty close to make sure that you kill them with the first shot. They will work, but personally I prefer 45 Colt shotshells. Not much difference in recoil due to gun weight and more shot so you don’t have to get quite so close. Haven’t tried 410 as the only handgun I own that will fire it is a Bond Arms derringer.

 

1 hour ago, Charlie T Waite said:

I have 2 3" barreled Judges - 1 ultra light & 1 stainless the either works great for snakes, porcupines, or any pest (2 or 4 legged).  I like the stainless better for the 410 as it is a bit heavier so a little less recoil.

Thank you Gentlemen. That was what I was interested in. I kind of figured .357 shotshells might work, but when it comes to fast snakes “might” just doesn’t cut it. 
 

Charlie, how is the recoil vs .45 Colt with those .410 shells in a Judge?

[DeaconKC]

I have a .38 loaded with CCI snake shot. It has worked well on 2 occasions when called upon [under 10-15 feet].

[Pat Riot]

4 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Personally, I think that "The Judge" and anything like it is just stupid, an answer in search of a question. I would keep carrying my .357 with whatever load you're carrying now, and get the aforementioned Bond Derringer for the .410, and carry it too when snakes might be encountered. 

Now see, I consider derringers to be a fairly useless piece of hardware. 
 

I was looking at a couple of Taurus Judges yesterday and was thinking one might be handy when fishing. 2 shells for snakes and 3 .45 Colt rounds for other snakes, but then this morning I thought about just carrying my 327 Night Guard with a couple of snake shot rounds and 6 rounds of .357 Magnum. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

25 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Now see, I consider derringers to be a fairly useless piece of hardware. 
 

I was looking at a couple of Taurus Judges yesterday and was thinking one might be handy when fishing. 2 shells for snakes and 3 .45 Colt rounds for other snakes, but then this morning I thought about just carrying my 327 Night Guard with a couple of snake shot rounds and 6 rounds of .357 Magnum. 

The way I figure it, you should only need one shot for  the snake, with the derringer, you have 2 dedicated for just that purpose. Otherwise I agree about them. A "J" frame size revolver is smaller, and a micro .380 smaller still, both with more firepower. 

With your plan, if the 410 isn't what's called for, you have to skip past them to get to the .45s. Same thing with the .357. I think that I could draw whichever pistol I needed, and not have all that to worry about. To be fair though, I've never shot a derringer with a 410, so I can't comment on how that would go. They make them with a large grip, so it might not be a concern.

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

46 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

To be fair though, I've never shot a derringer with a 410, so I can't comment on how that would go. They make them with a large grip, so it might not be a concern.

I have the Bond Arms Snake Slayer. It’s a heavy sucker but firing it with even the made for pistol .410 rounds ain’t for the faint of heart.

[Pat Riot]

59 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

The way I figure it, you should only need one shot for  the snake, with the derringer, you have 2 dedicated for just that purpose. Otherwise I agree about them. A "J" frame size revolver is smaller, and a micro .380 smaller still, both with more firepower. 

With your plan, if the 410 isn't what's called for, you have to skip past them to get to the .45s. Same thing with the .357. I think that I could draw whichever pistol I needed, and not have all that to worry about. To be fair though, I've never shot a derringer with a 410, so I can't comment on how that would go. They make them with a large grip, so it might not be a concern.

 

I figure with the .357, two shotshells and then a 158 grain hollow point in about a second could sure ruin things for a nefarious creature.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

I have the Bond Arms Snake Slayer. It’s a heavy sucker but firing it with even the made for pistol .410 rounds ain’t for the faint of heart.

Yeah, since I posted this question this morning I have pretty much decided that a 3” .410 from a handgun would be pretty bad for my already jacked up right wrist. 
 

 

DROPPING THE .410 REVOLVER IDEA. 

 

Thank you all for your help. 

[Texas Joker]

I load 45 colt shot in my cowboy brass. I have a .5'' dowel cutter and cut cards out of cereal boxes.

 

Powder card shot (usually from my cowboy shot bag)card a touch of elmers to hold it together

 

Shoot it out of my cowboy pistol

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

Maybe you should get one of THESE, and just carry it like a Mares Leg.

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Maybe you should get one of THESE, and just carry it like a Mares Leg.

Thank you, but no. I will just stick to a revolver. It’s a cool idea though. 

[J-BAR #18287]

I have killed two rattlers;  one with the left front tire on my ‘67 Impala, the other with a 20 lb. rock dropped on its head.  I have fired a friend ‘s .410 derringer. Once. Never again.

 

Put commercial .38 shot cartridges in your Detective Special.  Shoot at paper to learn the pattern.  Go forth and conquer.

[Rip Snorter]

Can't even recall how many rattlers (or buzz worms, as the ranchers call them out here), I've offed.  Pretty young ranch kids kill them with whatever is available.  Stones, sticks or shovels. They aren't Black Mambas.

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said:

Can't even recall how many rattlers (or buzz worms, as the ranchers call them out here), I've offed.  Pretty young ranch kids kill them with whatever is available.  Stones, sticks or shovels. They aren't Black Mambas.

The problem is Copperheads. Devious. Quiet. Fast. Camouflaged. Rattlers have never bothered me. Snakes in general do not bother me. But had I not used to wear boots and jeans as a kid I know of at least 4 times I would have been bitten by a copperhead. I don’t care much for them. 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

11 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I figure with the .357, two shotshells and then a 158 grain hollow point in about a second could sure ruin things for a nefarious creature.

 

 

Yeah, since I posted this question this morning I have pretty much decided that a 3” .410 from a handgun would be pretty bad for my already jacked up right wrist. 
 

 

DROPPING THE .410 REVOLVER IDEA. 

 

Thank you all for your help. 

I’m late to the discussion but will simply add that you’re making the right choice.  
 

My snake gun is a J-frame with shot cartridges.  I’ve patterned it out to 10’ and feel confident it will address any snake situation. Beyond that range, I’ll let the snake live and they leave me alone.  My thoughts might be different in water moccasin country, but rattlesnakes and copperheads are not aggressive.

[Pat Riot]

5 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

I’m late to the discussion but will simply add that you’re making the right choice.  
 

My snake gun is a J-frame with shot cartridges.  I’ve patterned it out to 10’ and feel confident it will address any snake situation. Beyond that range, I’ll let the snake live and they leave me alone.  My thoughts might be different in water moccasin country, but rattlesnakes and copperheads are not aggressive.

Thank you. 
Ten feet is plenty. If a snake is 10’ away and not coming my way it’ll be alive when I pass, except for water moccasins. 
When I was a kid in PA I did encounter aggressive copperheads. Mojave Green rattlesnakes are also aggressive, but no worries here.