Yellowstone Curtis 112957 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I see lots of equipment choices and 12 gauge seems pretty popular. What is the downside to using a 20 gauge? Thanks Yellowstone Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 With the loads we use you are trying to push the same amount of shot down a smaller tube so you have more felt recoil. I have a fairly large hand and I can handle the larger 12ga. shells a little easier. 12ga light recoil shells are a little easier to find than 20ga. if you don’t reload. Other than that if you like a 20ga. go for it. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend P. Babcock Chase Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Howdy YC, What Randy said. Plus, for the reasons he said, Starting with a 12 will probably make finding a reasonably priced gun a bit easier. If you find down the road that you still want a 20, trading or selling the the 12 to another cowboy will likely be easier than a 20. Just my opinion and worth every penny you paid for it. Rev. Chase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 And if you are reliant on factory ammo, the 12 is cheaper than the 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowstone Curtis 112957 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 I do reload all gauges from 410 through 10 so ammo isn't the issue. I have some sxs shotguns already. I was curious about the gauge selection. Your explanations make sense though if I didn't have ammo available and had to buy factory ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Lots of load data and help with 12 gauge in this sport, nothing (almost) for loading 20 gauge light loads. In case you haven't figured it out yet, almost all cowboy-level shotshells are loaded VERY light (think 800 FPS and 3/4 ounce). Just enough to tip the shotgun knockdowns. Lots of powders can handle going below minimum published loads in 12 gauge. Not so much in 20, where you will have to figure it all out yourself. Most shooters will have less recoil and faster second shot with a 12 than a 20. Empty 12 ga. hulls in particular are much easier to find. Most shooters find it faster to pull larger 12 gauge shells from their shotshell belt than pulling 20s. Shotgunning in cowboy games is a "gun loading speed test." good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 its all covered fairly well above , unless you have an affinity for the 20ga it should steer you to the 12ga , ive seen folks shooting 16s and 10s , but im certain they downloaded or had a favored black load for their preference as well as a good reason for being different , mostly i always recomend the 12 even for kids if they are big enough , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowstone Curtis 112957 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 Thank you, that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I tried going to a 20 ga SKB because it was light and very good looking. I found that I couldn't handle the 20 ga shells with the speed that I could handle the 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Catorce Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Another plus to shooting the ubiquitous 12g… and its happened to me.. if you need ammo in the middle of a match your friends may be able to help you out and spot you a a box or two … i was at nationals and had a 12g squib during first day practice stages… then another one during the next day’s practice stages…. I couldn't trust my reload batch after that … so @Dream Chaser, SASS #79316 and @Itchy Trigger helped me with spare off the shelf 12g… benefits of using a smaller hull? … i shoot with a cowboy that uses a 97… FAST… he can draw four 16g shells at a time…. He is tall and big handed so could probably pull four 12g also but his technique is impressive…. i considered a 20g sxs at one time cuz I’m very short… I thought the 20g would be scaled to my hands better… but the reason mentioned above out weighs smaller shells for me….for now at least.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I have both a 12 and a 20 gauge Parker. The 20 gauge is noticeably smaller. Both have 30" barrels and the 12 is a joy to shoot. When I loaded the exact same 20 gauge loads that I had used in my Stevens pump with good results, in the Parker they were a painful shoulder thumper. So, I have to find a new load for use in the Parker. Problem is, all the data I've been able to find are for hunting loads, which tend to be heavier. I probably haven't looked hard enough, I am sure there is lightweight target load data to be found, but so far, I have not found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowstone Curtis 112957 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: I have both a 12 and a 20 gauge Parker. The 20 gauge is noticeably smaller. Both have 30" barrels and the 12 is a joy to shoot. When I loaded the exact same 20 gauge loads that I had used in my Stevens pump with good results, in the Parker they were a painful shoulder thumper. So, I have to find a new load for use in the Parker. Problem is, all the data I've been able to find are for hunting loads, which tend to be heavier. I probably haven't looked hard enough, I am sure there is lightweight target load data to be found, but so far, I have not found it. I regularly use 3/4 ounce loads with 20/28 powder in STS hulls for the 20 gauges. Light shooting loads less than 1200 fps. I could change the load but I use it for sporting clays, trap and Skeet. I tried hard to find one load that works for most everything. Hunting loads are a whole different deal. But I don't load volumes of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 All good points. If you have an opportunity to shoot Wild Bunch, 12 gauge is the only shotgun ammo allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 main reason is John Wayne never used 20 ga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowstone Curtis 112957 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said: main reason is John Wayne never used 20 ga. True, but he almost always had a brace of Greeners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Yellowstone Curtis 112957 said: I regularly use 3/4 ounce loads with 20/28 powder in STS hulls for the 20 gauges. Light shooting loads less than 1200 fps. I could change the load but I use it for sporting clays, trap and Skeet. I tried hard to find one load that works for most everything. Hunting loads are a whole different deal. But I don't load volumes of those. If you have a 20ga. SxS, reload and have a load you like by all means go for it. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vail Vigilante Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I have a Stevens 311 in 20 gauge. It was the first firearm I ever owned. I run it in the fun local matches, we never shoot clays, just steel poppers. For that it runs fine. I do not reload 20 gauge. If you look, you can find 7/8 oz mild dove loads at WalMart, $20ish/hundred. They don't recoil much, and they knock down the popper. Now if we ever start shooting clays, different story, different gun, that gun is choked way too tight for short clays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Vail Vigilante said: ...If you look, you can find 7/8 oz mild dove loads at WalMart, $20ish/hundred.... I'm guessing you haven't priced these in a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 No downside to 20ga as far as I'm concerned. Only lately have they become more expensive than 12's but not by enough to worry me. I reload my own .7 oz with unique almost no recoil and if the popper don't go down it was my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffin Filler #51633 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 A SASS gunsmith talked me into a short LOP on the SXS. It seemed to make me a bit faster. I had the barrels cut down to 18 1/4" as well and the gun balanced and handled beautifully. Recoil between a 12 or 20 is the same if the payload and speed are the same in the same weight gun. The smaller bore does not affect recoil. Another "old wives' tale" that should be ignored. You will find more 12 ga guns so that may factor into your choice as well. Good point above about being to help from others if you run of ammunition at a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 It's not the bore size that affects felt recoil, it's weight of the gun. 20s have smaller frames and weigh about a pound less than a similar 12 gauge double. You WILL feel more recoil in a 20 shooting same payload as a 12 gauge. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vail Vigilante Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: I'm guessing you haven't priced these in a while... About 6 months ago actually. They had them for about that and I bought a lot of them. You have to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I shoot both. I reload. I notice no difference in recoil. Most shoot 12 gauge. It's really your choice just like what caliber pistol & rifle you choose to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Yellowstone, like you I have an affinity, no make that love affair, for the 20 gauge. I shoot it for skeet and sporting clays, and yes occasionally for cowboy. If you reload, you can make them shoot and feel any way you want. The only thing I will say is that because the EMPTY hull weighs less than a 12 gauge, you have to put a little more effort into shucking them. Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Do not try this, wacky idea RS's post inspired. I wonder if you could weight a 20 ga. case with a washer to make it heavier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Where would you put it? Inside the case, down by the primer? Regardless of what you glue that in with, the 12,000 PSI in the shell will tear at the washer and spit it out the barrel, I would imagine. Yes, it is a wacky and unsafe (because it has untested side effects) idea. GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Imagine a washer coming back at ya off a target. Shot hurts enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowstone Curtis 112957 Posted January 14, 2023 Author Share Posted January 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Rip Snorter said: Do not try this, wacky idea RS's post inspired. I wonder if you could weight a 20 ga. case with a washer to make it heavier? High brass or brass cases if you want a heavier hull would be a better approach in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said: Imagine a washer coming back at ya off a target. Shot hurts enough. The washer behind the charge, epoxied? Don't know. as stated a wacky idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: Where would you put it? Inside the case, down by the primer? Regardless of what you glue that in with, the 12,000 PSI in the shell will tear at the washer and spit it out the barrel, I would imagine. Yes, it is a wacky and unsafe (because it has untested side effects) idea. GJ The pressure would be ahead of the washer - think muzzle loading canon - those not very different than a thick cartridge, like I said, wacky, but at least got everyone's circulation up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 I never had any trouble getting Remington STS cases out of any of my guns. Winchester AA only hung up in my Browning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 9 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said: About 6 months ago actually. They had them for about that and I bought a lot of them. You have to watch. I was at Wally World today, and I usually don't pay attention to 20ga, but I took a look. There were no 100 packs of 20ga, only 12ga and those were $40 and up. 20ga AA's were same as the 12ga, $12.27/box (and they did have 12ga LNLR on the shelf). The least expensive 20ga was Winchester white box, at $9.27 or $9.87 a box, I forget which. I know it depends on the gun as well as the ammo, but the less expensive 20ga, same as 12ga, have the plain steel base and may not shuck as well as brass-plated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Some of us can only count to 12. Twenty is "higher mathematics" Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vail Vigilante Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 7:09 PM, Rip Snorter said: The pressure would be ahead of the washer - think muzzle loading canon - those not very different than a thick cartridge, like I said, wacky, but at least got everyone's circulation up! They actually make full brass 20 gauge shells. A throwback item.....Ballistic products used to have them. Maybe they still do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 7:09 PM, Rip Snorter said: The pressure would be ahead of the washer Ummm, nope. Gas Pressure distributes itself into ALL the spaces it can find, at about the speed of sound, if not faster. Including back down around the base wad and primer pocket. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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