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Tite Group and Clays in 45 Colt


Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966

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Since Trail Boss is no longer available and with a question if it ever will be I have been searching for a replacement load for 45colt. 

Clays and Tite Group have had availability.  Here is some results from testing today.

 

I took today off from work, and finally got to the range with the chronograph and a variety of loads of Clays and Tite Group. 
 
It was mid 30's slightly overcast 
These tests were not the tip up, shake, shoot, but based more on actual cowboy use, gun loaded, "holstered" brought up level and shot, kept level for follow up shots of groups of 5.  
I wanted it to mimic as closely as possible the actual proposed use. 
 
Base load, 5.4 \g Trail Boss  200 grain bullet, Federal 150 LPP.  647fps Revolver, 759fps rifle 
Chrono was 15' from the muzzle of the guns. 
 
Tite Group 
5.5G  630fps revolver, 805 Rifle  About the same muzzle rise as TB 
5.7g   640fps revolver, 816 fps Rifle  Surprisingly, a noticeable rise in recoil, muzzle rise
6.0g   619fps revolver, 870fps rifle  Not sure why FPS on revolver was lower than the lighter loads?  
 
Clays 
4.4g  594fps revolver  735fps rifle 
4.6g  600fps revolver  733 rifle 
4.8g   634fps revolver  789 rifle 
 
It seems that Clays is more forgiving if a slight charge weight fluctuates.  
 
But boy, 4.4 and 5.5 grains of these two powders is a tiny amount in that big old 45colt case.  
 
At least I have a couple choices once TB is gone.    Going to load the Tite Group first as I have just one pound, use it for monthly matches and side events.  Save the TB loads for big matches where I care just a little bit more. 
 
Time to clean guns, both of these powders at these low loads are way dirtier than Trailboss, and I thought it was bad.  
Might have to think about annealing them in the future.  
 
 
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I load 4.6gr Clays (Hodgdon minimum) with 200gr bullet.  Very consistent, easy shooting, guns stay clean and brass falls out of cylinder with minimal staining.  But I haven't shot them in the rifle, and I haven't shot them in mid-30's temperature!  Clays doesn't seem to be available right now but Clay-Dot has been available lately.

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For me, the Clays is much cleaner than Trail Boss.

Gonna try Scarlett's Clean Shot next season.

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Might be time to start thinking about using the C45S case, at least in the pistols... It's available direct from Starline, and you can cut your powder charges even more.  I'm using 3.4 grains of Titegroup, but can't remember what my fps was the last time I tested...  and my notes are with my truck at the dealership.  I am using a 160 pill tho'.  

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18 hours ago, Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966 said:

Since Trail Boss is no longer available and with a question if it ever will be I have been searching for a replacement load for 45colt. 

Clays and Tite Group have had availability.  Here is some results from testing today.

 

I took today off from work, and finally got to the range with the chronograph and a variety of loads of Clays and Tite Group. ...
 
 

Thank you for posting your findings.  I appreciate it.

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My rule is: Light bullet/light load= Clays. Heavy bullet/light load= Titegroup (but with a charge near book max). 

 

My standard 45 Colt CAS load is a 260 grain RNFP (cast from a Lee 255 grain mould) over 6.0 grains of Titegroup. Economical, shoots little groups, leaves the guns clean, virtually duplicates the performance of the original BP loads, and it's not a position sensitive powder, so standard deviations are low enough it works well for long range side matches. 

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When I shot .45's and used Clay's, my recipe was 5.4 grs under a 200 grain bullet. I used that for .44-40 as well with a 200 gr bullet. 

 

I'm now shooting .38's and I'm using a 125 gr bullet over 3.6 grs of TiteGroup!

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have been shooting A2 in .45 Colt and Acp and 44 spec and mag at warm 44 spec levels.  approx 5 - 5.2 grains, lots of room to double or tripple charge a case so one must be careful.  I batch charge 50 cases in the loading block then visually inspect for proper powder level and presence of powder before seating bullets.  Thus eliminating both over charges and no charges.

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21 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I load 4.6gr Clays (Hodgdon minimum) with 200gr bullet.  Very consistent, easy shooting, guns stay clean and brass falls out of cylinder with minimal staining.  But I haven't shot them in the rifle, and I haven't shot them in mid-30's temperature!  Clays doesn't seem to be available right now but Clay-Dot has been available lately.

Hey Abilene,

 

Where are you seeing Clay Dot? I heard it was very close to the same as Clays for my shotgun loads. I haven't seen either in quite some time now.

 

Texas Maverick

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19 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

For me, the Clays is much cleaner than Trail Boss.

Gonna try Scarlett's Clean Shot next season.

I use CleanShot for my revolvers and rifle in my 38 loads and have for 5 years without any issues. You should be fine with it. I use a 125 grain bullet with 3.5 grains of CleanShot.

 

TM

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2 minutes ago, Texas Maverick said:

Hey Abilene,

 

Where are you seeing Clay Dot? I heard it was very close to the same as Clays for my shotgun loads. I haven't seen either in quite some time now.

 

Texas Maverick

It was at a LGS.  Sent you a PM.

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Not sure if this will help, but for a long time I used Trail Boss in my Ruger .45's.

After switching to Colts I had to switch bullets (.454 dia) so I reworked my

loads and settled on 6.7 gr of Unique.  After a while I concluded that it really

needed more powder to group better, and so I am starting out again to develop

an accuracy load.

 

I am going to do a ladder with Unique, and likewise with Tite-Group.

When the late Bob Munden did my guns he used 5.7 TG and got one hole groups,

I in my wisdom decided I didn't like TG (the smell) so went off and tried Trail Boss.

 

Now that I'm older, and have found some wiser folks to listen to, I am going to try TG again,

testing with 5.8, 6.0 and maybe 6.2 grains, and Unique 6.7, 6.9, 7.1 and 7.3 grains.

 

I uses a lead .454 bullet weighing in a 250 grains.

 

I want POA = POI at 15-20 yds, and raggedy one hole groups! 

 

I'll share my results once I get to doing this!

 

SC

 

 

 

 

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hey Nutmeg, what are you using for a powder measure and how even are your throws ? like you im running out of TB and looking for something else and I always found my powder measure would never throw TB well despite wrapping it with dryer sheets and running a constant vibration on the powder hopper, I was wondering if you had the same issue loading TB and if the tite group or clays measured out any more uniform, I would love to do better than +or- .2g but thats the best TB would ever throw 

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In this game .2 either way will not be noticed  these are used for practice. I do load all Main match ammo one by one with a scale and powder dribbler.

All max or near max loads are also done on a scale and a powder dribbler.

 

 

Best Wishes

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