Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

WTC-Squib or not?


Recommended Posts

Yesterday, we had a fairly new shooter who while shooting pistol had his first round go "pop".  Since it was obvious it was only the primer I yelled, "SQUIB!" and he set his gun done.   Upon further investigation, after he was done with the stage, we found that the round in question had had the primer inserted sideways.  When the firing pin struck it it went BANG, but didn't set off any powder and the bullet didn't move in the case.  So my question is: should the shooter in this case be offered a reshoot as it would have been perfectly safe for him to continue the stage?

 

Possum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes. And you did the right thing since you couldn’t be sure the gun was safe to fire after that point. Not really a squib since no barrel obstruction, so a reshoot is in order.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it interesting that first he didn't see the sideways primer when he was loading the pistol, and secondly that the cylinder even rotated with a cartridge primer seated like that. Heck if one of my correctly seated primer is slightly high I'll know about it when rotating the cylinder.

Edited by High Spade Mikey Wilson
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And some training on inspecting ammo is in order. In my thinking that should have been caught twice, once when putting it in whatever he stores his rounds in and again as he was loading the revolver.

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the pistol was the very first firearm used on the stage then yes, he deserved a reshoot. If rounds were sent down range with the other pistol or firearm then no reshoot.  Shooter owns the stage.  Better to learn this at a monthly than at a state match. 
 

Gringo

  • Confused 2
  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I understand the rules...He was stopped because it was thought he had a squib. No projectile in barrel...reshoot awarded

  • Like 12
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shooter "owns the stage" until the TO stopped his progress by hollering "Squib".  Since no bullet was lodged in the barrel, the TO should offer a reshoot due to unnecessary stoppage.  No matter if it happened on the first shot or some time later.

 

 

Tip of the hat to the TO for trying to prevent something that could have been dangerous!  

Edited by Jackalope
spelling
  • Like 16
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, El diablo gringo said:

If the pistol was the very first firearm used on the stage then yes, he deserved a reshoot. If rounds were sent down range with the other pistol or firearm then no reshoot.  Shooter owns the stage.  Better to learn this at a monthly than at a state match. 
 

Gringo

 

SHB Pg 13

 

- In the case of a suspected squib, the TO will instruct the shooter to make the firearm safe and continue with the next firearm. If the barrel is later determined to be clear, the shooter will receive a reshoot.

  • Like 13
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

Yesterday, we had a fairly new shooter who while shooting pistol had his first round go "pop".  Since it was obvious it was only the primer I yelled, "SQUIB!" and he set his gun done.   Upon further investigation, after he was done with the stage, we found that the round in question had had the primer inserted sideways.  When the firing pin struck it it went BANG, but didn't set off any powder and the bullet didn't move in the case.  So my question is: should the shooter in this case be offered a reshoot as it would have been perfectly safe for him to continue the stage?

 

Possum

 I would also offer him a reloading book to read.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, make certain the shooter was watching his loading and NOT distracted by others at the loading table.  We often forget and get to talking, etc.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means. 

 

Really interesting that a sideways primer went off!  First I've heard of that.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means. 

 

Really interesting that a sideways primer went off!  First I've heard of that.

Might have thought he hollered SQUID!!

Wouldn’t YOU stop if there was a squid on you??

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means. 

 

Really interesting that a sideways primer went off!  First I've heard of that.

 

Heck, he can probably use CCI primers with a hammer strike like that.;)

Edited by Cypress Sun
  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol, next time I’ll pay attention to the op.  Definitely a reshoot.  That’s what I get for multitasking too early in the morning 

 

Gringo 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Might have thought he hollered SQUID!!

Wouldn’t YOU stop if there was a squid on you??

Nope, unless that's what we're having for dinner.:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means.

While I get your thinking, I would rather stay with SQUIB.

I highly doubt that a new shooter will continue firing if the TO yells something at him he doesn't understand. Wouldn't he rather look at the TO expecting instructions? So, I'd suggest to yell SQUIB immediately followed by further instructions how to proceed with the pistol.

When TO says STOP the stage is finished and shooter must not continue with next guns (or else he gets a MDQ). A reshoot would be indicated regardless if there's in fact a squib or not. At least, that's how I read the SHB.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/8/2023 at 10:38 AM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means. 

 

Really interesting that a sideways primer went off!  First I've heard of that.

Or even allowed the cylinder to rotate. Would love to have seen how that worked.

 

TM

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/8/2023 at 9:21 AM, Jackalope said:

Tip of the hat to the TO for trying to prevent something that could have been dangerous!  

Amen, Jackalope!

 

Hugs!

Scarlett

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

WTC: Reshoot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TO stopped shooter for a perceived squib - no squib found (TO interference) Even though shooter was stopped for all the right reasons.

 

SHB pp 20:

 

No Alibi/Reshoots/Restarts

 

SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. - Reshoots are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions. However, if there is a range failure (failure of props, timer failure/unrecorded time, or Range Officer interference) beyond the competitor’s control, a reshoot may be granted. - On a reshoot, the competitor starts over clean, carrying only accrued safety penalties forward.

Edited by Charlie T Waite
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

it seems to me that with the serious potential consequences of a squib if someone thinks they hear one they should call it out , its been that way at most events ive been to , no-one needs a damaged gun and NO-ONE wants to hurt themselves or a bystander , it would take the fun out of our game , kinda like spotting , if you know its a hit - its a hit but if you think its a squib its a squib , why risk anyone ever , 

 

that said ill leave the reshoots to the RSOs , 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

REF also:

Quote

If a safety command is given by the TO, that is later determined to be errant, (e.g., if a squib call is determined to actually be clear), the shooter will automatically receive a reshoot.

RO2 p.8

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The above says it all!!  No need to pursue this further!!

 

THANKS PWB!!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.