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New stage idea hideout gun


Vail Vigilante

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So I had a idea for a add-on. It would need a rules change I suppose. It’s about a hideout pistol. What it would be is you could have a small revolver or derringer or pepper box and it would be fully concealed on you. If a main match gun failed you would pull your hideout and continue. This is the only time you could use your hideout.  

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The only flaw I see is someone breaking the 170 while drawing the gun. When I was in NCOWS, we frequently had a stage that was shot from a poker table at a target just across the table. The pocket pistol was lying on the table pointed down range and when the buzzer went off, the shooter picked up the pistol and fired their shots. It was a nice change of pace. If a shooter didn't have pocket pistol, one was provided.

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11 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

So I had a idea for a add-on. It would need a rules change I suppose. It’s about a hideout pistol. What it would be is you could have a small revolver or derringer or pepper box and it would be fully concealed on you. If a main match gun failed you would pull your hideout and continue. This is the only time you could use your hideout.  

you would need to unload that gun after each stage

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11 hours ago, Cholla said:

The only flaw I see is someone breaking the 170 while drawing the gun. When I was in NCOWS, we frequently had a stage that was shot from a poker table at a target just across the table. The pocket pistol was lying on the table pointed down range and when the buzzer went off, the shooter picked up the pistol and fired their shots. It was a nice change of pace. If a shooter didn't have pocket pistol, one was provided.

Did one of those years ago, easy set up, good fun and pretty safe.  Can't recall is if was at the start of an IPSC stage or SASS.

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Sounds fun but I would not allow the pistol to be carried loose in a pocket.  As a TO I could not tell whether the pistol was pointed in a safe direction.  Further, if the pistol had a hammer spur I would be concerned the hammer might snag on fabric and the shooter drops the loaded firearm.  I would want the pocket pistol holstered or another shooter moving the pocket pistol from the loading table and to the unloading table.  I've seen main match revolvers dropped when the tip of the barrel snags on a prop and would not want a setup that makes dropping a loaded pistol likely.

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Loaded, concealed carry is not allowed on the ranges I frequent, even for permitted shooters.  This does not mean it should be prohibited elsewhere.  (You are not stirring the pot.  Reasoned discussions are useful.)

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So many things could be fun with that...but it would only take one thing to lead to disaster. Loaded, free floating derringer or spurred hammer gun concealed in a pocket/vest/whatever...in a timed event...what could go wrong? 

 

Not for me, thank you. If you don't mind, I think I'll pass. 

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I’ve had the fortunately rare opportunity to administer 1st aid and triage a gunshot wound at a match that involved using a staged derringer. Luckily the club president doing the safety brief was using wax bullets and didn’t lose his ring finger, only his wedding ring and a chunk between his fingers plus a chauffeured ride to the nearest rural hospital! 
If you’ve volunteered at a PP side match, it’ll scare the bejesus out of you seeing  “experienced” shooters blasting away with staged guns on the clock. It might not be pretty seeing the little guns being jerked out during a stage! Not the best idea to incorporate derringers and PP into any main match IMO:mellow:

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I like the idea of adding a pocket pistol and/or derringer to a stage every once in a while, or even regularly, but I don't know if the initial scenario described is the way to do it.

Given how "full" our costumes normally are, I can't off the top of my head think of a way to safely draw such a third gun.  Perhaps having it staged at specific location would make the most sense.  Given the "pretend" nature of our game, a gun can easily be "hidden" on a table that you move to at a specific time in the stage.  

Unless we were to drastically change the game, IE, redo the rules to include such a pistol on every stage of every match, it might be difficult to add on as a random thing.  Even if people know about it in advance for a particular match, you're going to get a lot of complaints along the lines of "I don't have one of those and have no plans to get one."   And a proposed rule change to add it would open up a whole world of arguments.

Perhaps a more "doable," way would be to have some sort of a side match that incorporates a pocket pistol.  That way, folks who wanna try it can, and those who are not interested are not left out from the main festivities.

 

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Back in the earlier days of CAS, we had stages that used a pocket pistol or derringer, but never from “concealed on the body”. I know that other shooting disciplines like IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Assn), require concealed carry, but they have strict rules on how that carry is to be done, and they use modern guns.
 

Many of the derringers that we use and I believe all of the pocket pistols must manually be put on half-cock before closing because the firing pin protrudes from the frame and could strike a primer upon closing.  And derringers not on half cock always have the hammer down on a live round.  The potential is there for disaster in the case of a dropped derringer ot antique pocket pistol.

 

It is fun to use them on main match stages, but stage them on a table rather than drawing from concealment.

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IMO...the idea of "If a main match gun failed you would pull your hideout and continue. This is the only time you could use your hideout." is impractical to begin with. 
The current rules have a number of procedures and allowances in place for handling firearm malfunctions.

"We" are NOT going to rewrite the rules to allow carrying a backup firearm "just in case" which would, as already mentioned, require additional loading and unloading oversight.
Also:

Quote

All handguns must be carried in a safe holster capable of retaining the firearm throughout a normal range of motion.

...

Holsters may not depart from the vertical by more than 30º when worn.

SHB pp.2-3

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