La Sombra Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Dang this hobby is expensive, interesting and fun! So right after Thanksgiving, I acquired 2 rifles in 50-70 Gov't. The first rifle was a 1868 Springfield Trapdoor 2nd Allin conversion and the other was a 1871 Remington Rolling block New York State Militia rifle. Both rifles were in good shape with minimal handling marks, solid rifling and good bores. Now off to find 50-70 reloading components. Black Powder, check. Primers, check. Bullets and brass, no bueno. Found some bullets (usually not an issue). Brass.... Starline, Grafs, Midway, Brownells, Dixie Gun, and other stateside sources, none. Oversea sources, got it. But with the exception of our Aussie cousins, none ship here (Thanks Customs). Australia shipping was going to as expensive as the brass which wasn't cheap. I did place an order for 50-70 from Starline on backorder to be made sometime this century (not their fault, business). What will I do......Gunbroker! It has everything. The 4 auctions that I was watching/bidding on for 50 pieces of Dixie Gun brass ended with the brass selling for over $6 per round. No way I was going to pay that. Without consulting with my handy friends, I bought some 50-110 brass from Dixie Gun. My plan was to cut it to 50-70 lengths, and load it. Did just that. Sent the guns out to be examined by a competent gunsmith with some of the cut down load 50-110 brass. I get a call from the gunsmith telling me that the rim on the 50-110 is smaller than the rim on the 50-70 (he had a dummy round to test) and would not engage the extractor on the Rolling Block. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH! This time I consulted with @Sedalia Davewho is on a 50 Cadet trek to get answers. Dave was gentle when he virtually slapped me for the 50-110 fiasco. He also has an order in at Starline. He did suggest that I look at 50-90 Sharps. So off on another chase. After a reasonable exhaustive search, I found some. Order 10 cases (pieces of brass) to experiment. Specifications for 50-70 Case type Rimmed, straight Bullet diameter .515 in (13.1 mm) Neck diameter .535 in (13.6 mm) Base diameter .565 in (14.4 mm) Rim diameter .660 in (16.8 mm) Rim thickness .065 in (1.7 mm) Case length 1.75 in (44 mm) Overall length 2.25 in (57 mm) Primer type Large rifle Specifications for 50-90 Sharps Parent case .50 Basic Case type Rimmed, straight-taper Bullet diameter .512 in (13.0 mm) Neck diameter .528 in (13.4 mm) Shoulder diameter .528 in (13.4 mm) Base diameter .585 in (14.9 mm) Rim diameter .663 in (16.8 mm) Case length 2.50 in (64 mm) Overall length 3.20 in (81 mm) Primer type Large rifle Note that the two measurements that we really care about are Rim Diameter and Base Diameter. The difference between Rim Diameter is negligible, 3/1000th of an inch. The Base Diameter is potentially more problematic with a 2/100th difference. Also note the Parent Case for the 50-90 is the 50 Basic. In checking the Handloader's Manual to Cartridge Conversions , the 50 Basic is listed as the parent cartridge to 50-70. This has potential of working! So the plan then became to trim the 50-90 brass to approximately 1.73 inches, cleanup the trimmed neck, lube the brass and resize the cut brass in a 50-70 full length sizing die. The resized brass was measured between 1.735 and 1.74 inches in length. The next step was to test the rifles with the dummy round for extraction. The rounds extracted successfully. The 50-90 Sharps brass was not cheap. However it was significantly less than $6 per case for the auctioned 50-70 cases on Gunbroker. Since I enjoy the hunt and the chase, I had an outstanding learning experience. (and I ordered 25 more cases so I can go shooting.) Since any job worth doing requires at least one new tool, I acquired a Lyman Accutrimmer with the drill attachment. The use of a shell holder instead of the locking mechanism on the Lyman Universal Trimmer was a bonus. I do not believe that the locking mechanism will work with the base size either. You will also need to get the 50/50A pilot for the trimmer. Hope that this information helps those that are starving for some 50-70 Gov't brass. I am also sorry that this solution impacts the 50-90 Sharps community. La Sombra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 You should have at least posted you were looking for some 50-70 brass to use with your new rifles. Some folks just might have had a few they would have sold you until Starline makes some more. I have done that in the past when I had a stash of a particular type of brass someone was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Your post has much value for me. I now know not to ever buy a 50-70 rifle (unless it comes with brass) Looking forward to the shooting report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Sombra Posted December 30, 2022 Author Share Posted December 30, 2022 13 minutes ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said: You should have at least posted you were looking for some 50-70 brass to use with your new rifles. Some folks just might have had a few they would have sold you until Starline makes some more. I have done that in the past when I had a stash of a particular type of brass someone was looking for. I did post a WTB ad. Got zero responses except “Me too”. La Sombra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Sorry I do not look at the classified section anymore so if that is where you posted the WTB that is most likley why I did not see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Catorce Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, La Sombra said: I did post a WTB ad. Got zero responses except “Me too”. La Sombra Thanks for sharing the data Compadre, I very informative! Bring those beauties to the next Gunfight at Gamble Gulch!…but I’m with @Abilene, SASS # 27489… no brass, no deal cuz im not half as handy with a caliper as you are!…. in fact…45-70 packs enough of a shoulder wallop for me!… so I’m out of the 50/70 business! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 A quick check says Buffalo Arms has bullets in stock you can use for .50-70, but they are out of stock on brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Damned Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Easily half the reason I’m in this hobby is coming up with means to produce the rounds for the weapons I acquire. Sometimes the components are found through purchase or barter. Sometimes I find them through the kindness of those here on the wire. I’ll leave it to you to guess which are more rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Fire, SASS 10064 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Send you a PM, found some unfired DGW 50-70 brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORNERY OAF Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 In the same boat pard...I bought a 50-70 here and found out how hard brass is to come by. It's out there, lookin is half the fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I don’t have anything to add to this other than to say if it weren’t for @La Sombra, and @Sedalia Dave I’d have a lot more fun money in my pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Sombra Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 @Tequila Shooteryou’re welcome. La Sombra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 10 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said: I don’t have anything to add to this other than to say if it weren’t for @La Sombra, and @Sedalia Dave I’d have a lot more fun money in my pocket Your Welcome. Besides if it was in your pocket you wouldn't be having any fun with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 A source for bullets: http://www.westernbullet.com/50riflecaliber.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 @La Sombra After talking to @Tequila Shooter today, I gave him enough ideas that your mad money reserve is going to shrink as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Sombra Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 I need no advice or suggestions as to how my reserve cash is spent. Thanks. La Sombra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Kuhl Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 On 12/30/2022 at 4:41 PM, La Sombra said: I did post a WTB ad. Got zero responses except “Me too”. La Sombra Me too too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Mack Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Dixie had 50-70 in stock but just for two days. I ordered 20 but not cheap at 4.00+ per case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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