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Hand prime or machine?


Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life

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Couldn’t sleep so started reading wire and saloon posts about 3:30 am. In numerous threads shooter’s talked about the superiority of hand priming over letting the machine do it. Most cited fewer high primers when using the hand primer. 
I have been using Dillon 550, 650 or 750 machines since 1982 and in that time have never owned a hand primer. Last weekend had my second high primer and both of those were off of my two year old 750. At a low rough guess, between all the machines, about 400,000 cowboy loads and perhaps another 100,000 three gun and other competition loads. Throw in another 30,000 shot shells on a MEC Sizemaster or my current 9000 GN with no high primers ever and I feel I am somehow missing the potential benefits of hand priming. 
So my questions are:

1) is the slower hand priming worth the saving of a 1 in 250,000 high primer in cartridge loading vs the time spent priming off the press. 

2) how many use the hand primer vs the machine and what has been your experience?

3) i prime by the procedures in the appropriate manual and have developed a “feel” for a properly seated primer, is this “feel” how others do it and is it different from the hand primer?

4) when using the hand primer is a high primer common or uncommon?

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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Lee Precision (bench-type) Auto Prime.

I haven't had a high primer since I started using them 6 yrs ago.

Merry Christmas, y'all.

 

I load for our whole outfit.  And that is aprox. 10K/yr(?).

 

 

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I have and RCBS Universal Priming tool but rarely use it. I load on a Hornady Lock n Load Progressive Press. The shell plate tolerances are tight enough that the press will bind up and not advance if the primer is not seated complete and correctly. High primers are rare. 

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I used an RCBS hand primer for 20 years, never a high primer, but that was because I was loading on a Lee Turret.  Since I started using a 550 two years ago, mucho faster and still no high primers.  Although I did have the occasional flipped or sideways primer until I got it dialed in, as it is a very old machine (2nd year production).  I do have a Square Deal B as well that I've used very little over the years.  Very difficult to seat primers deep enough on that one, even after sending it back to Dillon.

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1) No, not in my opinion. With the number of primers seated and odds posted, I'd say your odds of a high primer with hand seating is the same or higher.

 

2) I have a hand primer, only used it when I had a single stage press. With the 550, it no longer is a time saver.

 

3) I don't really have a "feel" for a properly seated primer. What I have a "feel" for is an improperly seated primer or a problem with the priming system. A spent primer behind the primer bar, a spent primer hanging up on the decapping pin and trying to reseat the spent primer, a piece of (&$%@*%) S & B brass or most any other priming problem just feels different and therefore worth a look.

 

4) I don't know but I would have to think that with paying proper attention, no more common that progressive priming.

 

 

FWIW, I still have my hand primer...just haven't used it in the last 20 years.

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I prime everything on the machine, absolutely hate hand priming.  I load on a 650 and will occasionally get a high primer if I get lazy on the handle.  I check all my rounds anyway so I always catch them so not a big deal. 

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I hand prime with a Lee hand primer. Doesn't seem to take that long to prime 500 or so at a time. I'm usually sitting out listening to music or inside watching TV when doing this.

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41 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

... 
So my questions are:

1) is the slower hand priming worth the saving of a 1 in 250,000 high primer in cartridge loading vs the time spent priming off the press. 

...

 

 

I do the reloading for my lovely bride, so.....yes.             :wub:

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

 

 

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I've been loading on a 650 for 30 years.  Don't really know how many loaded but I shot IPSC, and other games before starting SASS in 2000 with a volume of conservatively 15k a year. High primers are not one of my concerns although I do check my match rounds.  

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I've had a Lee Auto-Prime since the late 1970's... it's only use is to hand prime my target rifle ammo.  This is the same ammo that I segregate brass & bullets by weight, trim to an exact length and individually charge with exactly equal amounts of powder.   If I knew of a way to make sure my primers were also equal in brisance, I'd do that also.  It's then seated & crimped on a single stage press... either a Lyman Bonanza press at the range or on the Rock Chucker at home.  (Making sub 1-inch holes with a mdl 94 Winchester in .30-30 @ 200 yardsis very satisfying.  For my plinking, cowboy or 3-gun ammo, not even if I was retired full-time would I waste the time to hand prime.  95% of my hunting needs are met with factory ammo... In fact, outside LNLR 12 ga. it's the only factory ammo I buy.  High primers have been of a very very low incidence in 50 years of reloading.

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1.  With the amount of brass you're priming, the machine is the way to go, based on the number of high primers you have noticed.  I use the word notice because you may have had any number of primers that were not fully seated, but they went off anyway.  If your experience with high primers to date has been with the 750, I would make sure it's clean and properly set up.

2.  3. I used the primer seater on the 550 for a while, but I was having primers not seating evenly, i.e. one side was slightly higher than the other.  I started using an RCBS hand primer and now the Universal model with no issues.   Of course I haven't loaded more than 3-4,000 rounds a year, on average, over the last 40 years.  It seems to me the primers seat better using the hand primer.  To me the "feel" of the primer seating fully is better than it was with the 550.

4. I have never had a high primer using a hand primer, although I don't recall having any with the 550 either.

 

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1. It would not be worth it to me, particularly since we go through about 18,000 rounds a year. Takes a second or two to run my thumb over the base of bullets in the loading block pull the occasional one with a high primer and toss it.

2. 650 only.

3. I can’t speak to what hand priming is like, but I usually feel failures to seat all the way or seating to easily.

4. I don’t know, I’ve never used a hand primer.

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My first reloading outfit was a LEE loader, when you seat primers with a hammer they are not usually high. I upgraded to a Rock Chucker and soon realized I needed something other than the on press priming. For the next 30 or so years I primed with a RCBS (Lachmiller) Bench primer. I did have some primer seating issue but a Lyman primer pocket uniformer fixed that issue. 

Eventually I needed to upgrade to progressive. The Dillon 550 priming system is pretty good IMHO, good feel and it does a good job of seating primers. High primers doesn't seem to be an issue for me. I don't own a hand primer, if you don't count the Lyman 310 tools I own, and don't use. 

 

Revolvers, as a rule have a fairly generous headspace, how high do the primers have to be seated before there is an issue?

 

I put my ammo in boxes, all the primers are staring me in the face, a fail safe of sorts. 

 

One note: The Dillon 550 priming system works good, but it is a bit convoluted to set up and needs to be checked, occasionally. 

 

BB

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If I’m going to load on my single stage I hand prime but on the Dillion I prime with it. I did buy one of the lee app presses to knock the primers out of my brass before tumbling recently. Sometimes I question why, I guess it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing the primer pockets are clean .

With the case feeder the app press is quite fast for sizing and knocking the primers out of handgun brass. If I ever decide to process a bunch of military rifle brass I can also see it being an aid in prepping the primer pockets. 
I guess every thing is just a matter of how far you want to take it, tumbling cases isn’t really necessary but many of us do that, I’ve even trimmed handgun brass if I was looking to get as much accuracy as possible out of a gun. And it’s different depending on what you’re loading for, there’s a big difference between what will work for a cowboy match and a bench rest competition. 

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When using a single stage press, hand priming would be preferable to me.  However, on a progressive press, I let the machine do the work.  My Dillon 550B has somewhat of an advantage over some of the other progressives I have used in that seating the primer takes a reverse stroke of the lever after the sizing operation, rather than seating the primer on the upstroke of the plate when all the other operations are being performed.  This separation of operations allows one to actually feel the primer seat on the Dillon, which at least to me is a real advantage.  Seating the primer on the upstroke of the plate does work, but the operator can't feel it happen and a problem in any one of the other stations can effect the primer seating operation.  In any case, all my loads are inspected closely after putting them in the field boxes by holding the box up to a light and looking directly across the headstamp end of the loads.  While I have found a few high or flipped primers, I have yet to get out in the field or to a match with this problem.  Unfortunately, it can happen with either method of primer seating and quality control is important to prevent problems when they are least needed.  I've said this before and I'm going to say it again:  "If you want to shoot fast, it's best to load slow."  Good luck and good shooting to all.  

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18 hours ago, Griff said:

I've had a Lee Auto-Prime since the late 1970's... it's only use is to hand prime my target rifle ammo.  This is the same ammo that I segregate brass & bullets by weight, trim to an exact length and individually charge with exactly equal amounts of powder.   If I knew of a way to make sure my primers were also equal in brisance, I'd do that also.  It's then seated & crimped on a single stage press... either a Lyman Bonanza press at the range or on the Rock Chucker at home.  (Making sub 1-inch holes with a mdl 94 Winchester in .30-30 @ 200 yardsis very satisfying.  For my plinking, cowboy or 3-gun ammo, not even if I was retired full-time would I waste the time to hand prime.  95% of my hunting needs are met with factory ammo... In fact, outside LNLR 12 ga. it's the only factory ammo I buy.  High primers have been of a very very low incidence in 50 years of reloading.

 

When loading for Long-Range, we cast our own bullets, lube, resize, bellow, prime, seat all by hand as we want each cartridge to be the same.  I used a hand LEE Auto Loader Primer to prime the brass until I reached my middle 70s.  After priming several hundred, my thumb became numb, so I purchased a Lee Precision (bench-type) Auto Prime.  I like it much better than the hand-held model.  I load these on a Rock Chucker.  When I switched to Black Powder last year for CAS, I started loading the 44-40.  I load it just as I did the Long-Range, one at a time using a Lyman T-Mag Press.

 

When loading 38 Spl, 45LC, or 45 ACP, I use a 550B, or one of two Hornady Lock-n- Load Progressive Presses.  I have never experienced a high primer from any of these.

 

I mark the bottom of my brass with an "X", which also lets me check each round for a high primer.

 

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In my 20s and 30s, I thought that I wanted to collect guns.  My trumpet teacher had a national-level collection of Lugers and Broomhandles, but I had did not have the $$ or patience required.

In my 40s I wanted to be a real competitor but I am an average shooter.

In my 50s, I have learned that I am a good reloader after 30+ years of experience.  I load everything on single stage presses and hand-dip every powder charge and shot load.  I do not rush loading; it is the best part of my shooting hobby.  Never had a dud or a double charge, and I catch 99.99% of high primers when they happen.

 

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I pretty much do like Captain Bill Burt, I'll box some up for a shoot and run my thumb over them to locate high ones.  Its so much faster to let the press seat them. 

However if I want to shoot little groups with a bolt action I seat them by hand.

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I load on a Dillion 550, I occasionally get a high primer and I can feel it's going in the pocket very tight. That's when I should remove that shell. I try and check all the primers before putting them in boxes. It happens now and then and it's mainly my fault.

I have a hand primer for a back up but I hate to use it.

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I imagine that if that one high primer every 30 years causes you to lose in the final shootout and miss a chance at that brand new Car, your opinions may change.  But that rate of failure is outstandingly small.  When things are going good, why change?

 

 I have also used the primers in my various machines, never a hand primer.  I have owned and used many machines.  The main workhorse is a RCBS reloader special with the tube fed primer loader attached.  Have also primed in other RCBS loaders manually placing the primer in the little cup.  I have a LEE press (challenger maybe) that uses the separate primer tool the sits into the slot in the ram.  And of course the Dillon 550 I use for 45Colt.  I have a handful of presses so that I can set up multiple steps all at once along a workbench.  Think of it as a poor man's progressive that will work with everything from 32 short to 45-70 with just a change of simple dies and shell holders.

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Dillon SDB, i’ve got to go through the loaded rounds and reseat the high primers with RCBS bench mount priming tool. 9mm and Marlin 38 Spl can handle a somewhat high primer. 45 Colt & 38 Spl for the revolvers can not.

 

Just wet tumbled a mess of cartridge casings, with the primers out and car soap & wax. I am going to see if that improves the situation.

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I’m with sixgun, bulk reloads on the hornady progressive with priming just being one of the steps. You can’t advance to the next stage or you feel the dragging of the case during rotation if something is off. I also have a hornady hand primer but it isn’t fast at all. It’s ok if I’m just sitting on the couch watching tv and simply want to prime a bunch of brass, but it takes a lot of shaking to keep the primers consistently falling into the right spot to seat the next one. Also the cam action and seating just doesn’t feel as solid. The only nice thing I like about hand priming is you can definitely tell when the primer seats too easily. 

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1 hour ago, Uriah, SASS # 53822 said:

Dillon SDB, i’ve got to go through the loaded rounds and reseat the high primers with RCBS bench mount priming tool.

 

 

 

This sounds Really risky to me.  Of course i could just be paranoid.  Anyone else have an idea on this?

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13 minutes ago, Hogleg Hunter said:

 

This sounds Really risky to me.  Of course i could just be paranoid.  Anyone else have an idea on this?

 

I'll just say that it's not a good idea...but I can't say that I've never done it either.

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I use a Federal Arsenal hand primer;

 

I hand prime while I'm watching TV (typically something the Mrs. wants to watch - so I'm only marginally interested in).   So I find it kind of relaxing.

 

I've never had a high primer, but typically 1 or 2 out of 100 go in sideways.   So I'd really be better off with a progressive press, just don't have one yet.

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I would like to say thanks for all the responses to this post. 
It seems (in general) hand priming for high volume shooters is a step that has a relatively low value so long as the shooter knows their machine. On the other hand for precision shooting or those who don’t shoot multiple matches each weekend/month it fills a need for control over the process. 
With my two high primers (which were caught at the loading table) I feel my practices (priming on the machine) have been satisfactory to this point so will not be changing to a hand primer as the benefit to me personally is minimal. I will be paying considerably more attention to rounds made on my 750, as the high primer thing never popped up on my other machines. Typically I reload in lots of 1000 as primers come in boxes of 1000, bullets in boxes of 500 (use two), and powder is about 1/2 pound. Helps with bookkeeping and keeps my OCD in check! 
Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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2 hours ago, Hogleg Hunter said:

 

This sounds Really risky to me.  Of course i could just be paranoid.  Anyone else have an idea on this?

I pretty much do the same except I put it back in the SDB. By the time I box them and run a finger over the primers to check for high ones, I've already emptied everything from the press and blown it off. I get a high one or two about every thousand or so and you can feel them real easy running your finger down a row of ten.

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after a handful of high primers messed up a stage each on a few occasions i gravitated to hand priming with an RCBS [not the universal] ive not had an issue with a primer since - nearly 12 years now , 

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Hand primers serve a great niche. When for instance I’m loading 3 or 5 of some experimental round it saves time over the Dillion or the Big Boss.  Also when I am running 45 ACP or 10mm auto I keep the hand primer handy in case I find the non normal size I still use it. Small primer 45 especially.

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On 12/27/2022 at 5:23 PM, Hogleg Hunter said:

 

This sounds Really risky to me.  Of course i could just be paranoid.  Anyone else have an idea on this?

Yea it’s a little risky I suppose but you really have to hit the primer and I’ve never heard of anyone having a mishap. I’ve done it but not in a long time.

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I have 2 Dillon SDB presses. One .38Sp and one 45Colt

 

 I clean the primer pockets separately from tumbling. I use a RCBS primer pocket cleaner, chucked in a drill, on low speed.  I may find 1 high primer in 5-7K rounds.

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Yes to both......

In a progressive loader, check your primer settings on a regular basis, about every 500.  I use a individual primer tool on rifle loads.

 

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