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which is a safer motorcycle - big one or little one?


Alpo

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Like Mr. Badly I started on a dirt bike which was pretty helpful when I transitioned to riding on the street.  I've owned bikes from 125 cc to 1200 cc.  As others have said, it's the people in cars you need to worry about.  I tell my kids to expect the drivers around them to do the most stupid thing possible and be prepared for it.  I also tell them they won't be riding any motorcycles while they're my responsibility.

 

My first street accident was an elderly lady turning left right in front of me (oncoming) in a four door Nova.  I hit her at 45 mph and was fortunate enough to walk away from it.  I was riding a Honda TwinStar at the time.  I don't think it would have mattered if it were bigger or smaller, there was simply no time to react.


My second street accident was another lady, this time an unsignaled lane change right to left (which almost clipped my front tire), then immediate brakes for an unsignaled left turn.  My body left a nice big dent in the trunk of her car. This time I was on a Honda Sabre, which was a very powerful bike by the standards of that time.  But, it wouldn't have mattered what I was riding, there was no time to react.

 

I had a few minor accidents that were my fault for doing stupid things like riding wheelies when I shouldn't have been. 


There are no safe bikes, only safety minded people, and all too often even that isn't enough.

 

I like speed too much to own a motorcycle.

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I love Motorcycles, and though I haven't owned one for decades, I have maintained a valid motorcycle endorsement all that time just in case.  I am still tempted, but at my age, I am too breakable to go through even the minor crashes I came through unharmed.  They are marvelous fun, and like many fun things, they are not safe in any size.

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3 hours ago, Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 said:

And don't think about the Versys 1000, like the one I have...20210807_103814(1).thumb.jpg.47f8ddba198983351e3422b0f5ef54b4.jpg

Your bike weighs about 40 pounds more than my bike. I am betting that weight is in the engine bringing the center of gravity lower. ;)
Hey @Dantankerous

Maybe this would be a good one to look at. :D

 

Actually, I would love to have a Versos 1000 SE LT+

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I have had a Honda 175, a Harley XLX and a 1959 Harley Duo Glide, that 59 pan weighed a ton but on the hi-way it handled the wind and bad pavement WAY better than the lighter bikes and the big fat tires held the road better as well

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I had a Honda 550 years ago. It was plenty for me. I rode a couple bigger bikes and was more comfortable with the 550. I haven’t ridden in years and don’t intend to at my age.
 

I think the size you’re comfortable with is probably the safest way to go. 

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30 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Loved my Honda 305 Scrambler 

That was my first street bike. Gotta kick out of the forward motion of the kick starter! Can't remember what year it was though.

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55 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Bought mine new in 1967 IIRC.

Mine was trade for my Kawasaki 125 dirt bike. I'm feeling like it was a '66. It came pre customized with a Sportster style tank, bobbed rear fender and a beautiful heavy metallic blue!

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I have no trouble understanding why folks like motorcycles, and three of my brothers have had them.

 

I practiced law for 45 years, probably 75% defense of personal injury cases. Can't begin to count how many really, really bad motorcyle accident cases I was involved in. About half crashes with other cars, the other single; loss of control for various reasons, including road conditions. Many deaths, many terrible injuries.

 

So I never get on one, and discouraged all my kids from doing so. And a few other things-- like working in sawmills and plywood plants......

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2 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

I have no trouble understanding why folks like motorcycles, and three of my brothers have had them.

 

I practiced law for 45 years, probably 75% defense of personal injury cases. Can't begin to count how many really, really bad motorcyle accident cases I was involved in. About half crashes with other cars, the other single; loss of control for various reasons, including road conditions. Many deaths, many terrible injuries.

 

So I never get on one, and discouraged all my kids from doing so. And a few other things-- like working in sawmills and plywood plants.....and a few other things.

Thing is, they are gonna live their own lives.  All you can do is tell true stories about your mistakes!

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33 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

I have no trouble understanding why folks like motorcycles, and three of my brothers have had them.

 

I practiced law for 45 years, probably 75% defense of personal injury cases. Can't begin to count how many really, really bad motorcyle accident cases I was involved in. About half crashes with other cars, the other single; loss of control for various reasons, including road conditions. Many deaths, many terrible injuries.

 

So I never get on one, and discouraged all my kids from doing so. And a few other things-- like working in sawmills and plywood plants......

Everytime someone mentions facts like that to me, I ask if they have ever heard about car crashes and deaths/injuries associated with them.   Yes, they gave and they keep driving.   It's all a matter of which risks you feel comfortable taking.  

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My Wife says " I look 20 years younger when I get on my Bike" , and that is ok .... But to tell the truth I feel 40 years younger...  I just have more sense than I did 40 years ago... 

 

Jabez Cowboy 

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As a kid I was fascinated with guns and motorcycles. Still am. My parents didn’t want me to have anything to do with either. They thought cap guns and bicycles would “fix” me. They were wrong. I was never broke…until I got into guns and motorcycles. ;)

 

 

Riding a bike is a big “**** you!” to being normal. It’s freeing. It’s wonderful. It’s like a drug, induced by speed and wind and Newtonian Mechanics. It’s yours.

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i always rode a triumph bonneville save for two occasions - the first was a suzuki dirt bike that i "learned" on and i hit a lamp pole the first time i road it , the second was a honda 350 that i borrowed to take my test on .......was supposed to be more maneuverable , it all worked out fine , 

i always road a road bike on the road and off the road back in the day , but .......todays road bikes are a bit different than the triumph i road back then  

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I think I still have either 3 or 4 Lives Left, Lost the first one at age of 8... 

And I figure that if I die doing the things I love, I win ...

I had a high school buddy that never took chances, other than marriage ...

They had two kids a stress free job, ate right , kept trim and slim, and did all of the things that promote a long life ...

Never considered buying a Sport Car or a Motorcycle, drove a Volvo when they drove anywhere, which was seldom because driving was a risk...

Dropped dead face first into his supper at the age of 36, in front of his 2 kids and Wife...

I don't think he ever had very much fun, and didn't give his kids any adventures because they seldom went anywhere or did anything, never saw Yellow Stone Park , never dipped his feet in any ocean, Never took the kids skiing, Vacation consisted of a 3 week visit for them at his moms house ... 

I feel like he never lived, before he died...

 

Jabez Cowboy 

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2 hours ago, Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 said:

Everytime someone mentions facts like that to me, I ask if they have ever heard about car crashes and deaths/injuries associated with them.   

 

The answer to that would be yes.

 

 

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On 12/13/2022 at 7:43 PM, Alpo said:

If you were going to choose a bike, based solely on the safety of riding it, would you prefer a 350 Honda or a 650 Kawasaki or a 1200 Harley Davidson. I chose those particular brands because I know there is, or at least there was, a bike of that size by those manufacturers.

We don’t have enough information to answer with those specific yet not specific enough options.  It depends on the year and model of those bikes and the riding situation.  Are we talking about a Wyoming ranch road in the rain, sunny interstate around Atlanta, Sutton Place Manhattan?  

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If you are driving down the road, and we have a head-on collision, and you are driving an MGB and I am driving a Ford F-250 pickup, I am much more likely to walk away while you will go away in the ambulance. The big pickup truck is much safer than the little bitty sports car.

 

I just wondered if there was a similar thing with motorcycles. That a bigger motorcycle was safer than a little motorcycle, or vice versa. But apparently there is not.

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13 minutes ago, Alpo said:

If you are driving down the road, and we have a head-on collision, and you are driving an MGB and I am driving a Ford F-250 pickup, I am much more likely to walk away while you will go away in the ambulance. The big pickup truck is much safer than the little bitty sports car.

 

I just wondered if there was a similar thing with motorcycles. That a bigger motorcycle was safer than a little motorcycle, or vice versa. But apparently there is not.

Actually, you can buy a Honda Gold Wing with an airbag.  The very few instances that I am aware of shows that it works.  The way it deploys, it prevents the rider from being ejected over the handlebars.

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To Alpos point: if you wreck on a bike you will likely be ejected either low side for a slide or more energetically high side with airtime and associated landing impact.

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5 hours ago, Alpo said:

If you are driving down the road, and we have a head-on collision, and you are driving an MGB and I am driving a Ford F-250 pickup, I am much more likely to walk away while you will go away in the ambulance. The big pickup truck is much safer than the little bitty sports car.

 

I just wondered if there was a similar thing with motorcycles. That a bigger motorcycle was safer than a little motorcycle, or vice versa. But apparently there is not.

I have had 2 bikes bounce in me in an accident. One was a Kawasaki 125 dirt bike. Got some bruises. The other was my current Kawasaki Versys. It landed on my legs putting a nice gash in my calf before bouncing off and on down the road. Both are fairly light bikes. I think the Versys is around 475 pounds. 
I would not want a 900+ pound bike bouncing off of me. I am sure had my bike been a full dresser in my last crash my legs would have been broken. 

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4 hours ago, Texas Joker said:

You can buy an airbag jacket that deploys and kinda pads the landing and slide.Screenshot_20221215-075924_Brave.thumb.jpg.395eda35a8c146f2646c0febd75f0fca.jpg

Versions of this have been used in motoGP for several years now, built inside the leathers. Works well for race circuits where there's rarely any hard obstructions for the rider to impact.

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10 hours ago, Alpo said:

If you are driving down the road, and we have a head-on collision, and you are driving an MGB and I am driving a Ford F-250 pickup, I am much more likely to walk away while you will go away in the ambulance. The big pickup truck is much safer than the little bitty sports car.

 

I just wondered if there was a similar thing with motorcycles. That a bigger motorcycle was safer than a little motorcycle, or vice versa. But apparently there is not.

No, well, sort of.  I read a study 10 or 15 years back.  We as riders often blame the inexperienced young lads that ride crotch rockets beyond their abilities for increasing fatalities.  The study said that crotch rockets have become easier to ride for less skilled riders with ABS, slipper clutches, steering stabilizer, better engine management systems.  The fatalities rate is climbing because of the cruiser segment.  Bikes and engines are getting bigger and more comfortable, encouraging riders to continue riding as they get older, weaker, slower.  Baggers are heavy and cumbersome around town, they cruise at higher speeds than smaller bikes, are more likely to ride through rain with the protection.  So it isn’t specifically the bike that is more or less dangerous as the situation the bike allows you to be in.  
 

Remember that speed doesn’t kill, it is the sudden stop that’s dangerous.

Goldwing airbag:

 

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33 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

No, well, sort of.  I read a study 10 or 15 years back.  We as riders often blame the inexperienced young lads that ride crotch rockets beyond their abilities for increasing fatalities.  The study said that crotch rockets have become easier to ride for less skilled riders with ABS, slipper clutches, steering stabilizer, better engine management systems.  The fatalities rate is climbing because of the cruiser segment.  Bikes and engines are getting bigger and more comfortable, encouraging riders to continue riding as they get older, weaker, slower.  Baggers are heavy and cumbersome around town, they cruise at higher speeds than smaller bikes, are more likely to ride through rain with the protection.  So it isn’t specifically the bike that is more or less dangerous as the situation the bike allows you to be in.  
 

Remember that speed doesn’t kill, it is the sudden stop that’s dangerous.

Goldwing airbag:

 

This is exactly why I like a nimble bike. Maneuvering on a big heavy bike can be difficult.
Also, I no longer wish to ride racing type bikes (crotch rockets). The temptation to go like a bat out of hell still exists in my 25 year old mind but my 61 year old body isn’t as agile as I once was. :rolleyes:
 

I was offered to ride on my choice of a Ducati or a sporty BMW last year. The little devil that tides my left shoulder was all over that offer, but I let the little Angel win. I thanked the man and got on my Kawasaki and went home. Man, I wanted to ride that Ducati. 

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On 12/13/2022 at 6:43 PM, Alpo said:

If you were going to choose a bike, based solely on the safety of riding it, would you prefer a 350 Honda or a 650 Kawasaki or a 1200 Harley Davidson. I chose those particular brands because I know there is, or at least there was, a bike of that size by those manufacturers.

 

I wouldn't pick any of those.  The data are overwhelming that the safest motorcycles are those with fairings--touring motorcycles like Electra Glides, Street Glides, Road Glides, Gold Wings, etc.

 

The only Harley-Davidson that comes in ccs and not inches is a Sportster which is basically their smallest air cooled motorcycle.  I don't know that much about Japanese motorcycles but if it is only 350 or 650ccs, those are small motorcycles.   The safest motorcycles as far as being seen by idiot drivers are the largest, heaviest touring motorcycles.

 

In 22 minutes I'm going to get out of work and walk to my 103 cubic inch (that's 1790 ccs for those of you who don't speak American) Harley Davidson and ride home.  It was 26 degrees on my commute this morning; fortunately it's 50 or so degrees for my ride home.  It isn't a touring bike but it is much bigger/safer than a tiny motorcycle like you asked about.

 

  

20 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

I have no trouble understanding why folks like motorcycles, and three of my brothers have had them.

 

I practiced law for 45 years, probably 75% defense of personal injury cases. Can't begin to count how many really, really bad motorcyle accident cases I was involved in. About half crashes with other cars, the other single; loss of control for various reasons, including road conditions. Many deaths, many terrible injuries.

 

So I never get on one, and discouraged all my kids from doing so. And a few other things-- like working in sawmills and plywood plants......

 

Life wouldn't be worth living without joys like my motorcycles.  That's the other side of the coin you didn't see--all the people safely enjoying millions of miles of riding who didn't get seriously injured or die.

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32 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

 

Life wouldn't be worth living without joys like my motorcycles.  That's the other side of the coin you didn't see--all the people safely enjoying millions of miles of riding who didn't get seriously injured or die.

 I do see it. Three of my brothers are riders. One a serious one who has ridden all over the West. 

 

All risks are a matter of personal assessment. Obviously even highly risky activities only result in death or injury very rarely. If it were otherwise, even the daring would not do them.

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22 minutes ago, E.D. BLACK said:

Always be the one ridden by the guy who rode a dirt bike in his teenage years .

Heres my really ugly triple disc “touring bike “ , bought in sept for 1500 .

457D01D0-C4E6-42AD-8799-25DE1311B611.png

My first new Harley was one of those. Then I did a fly and ride to Miami and rented an Electra Glide. That became expensive!

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1 hour ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

 I do see it. Three of my brothers are riders. One a serious one who has ridden all over the West. 

 

All risks are a matter of personal assessment. Obviously even highly risky activities only result in death or injury very rarely. If it were otherwise, even the daring would not do them.

 

That isn't seeing it.  It's like someone saying they understand the adrenaline of a jury trial without ever having done one.  Watching is not doing.  And it's easy to only look at the potential injuries when you're not experiencing all the good.

 

Guns are the same way.  People want to talk about the tens of thousands of homicides instead of the millions of self defense uses of firearms.  It's just human nature to look only at the costs and not the benefits.

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1 hour ago, El Chapo said:

 

That isn't seeing it.  It's like someone saying they understand the adrenaline of a jury trial without ever having done one.  Watching is not doing. 

 

Well, at least I've done a few dozens of those.

 

Come to think of it, my last jury trial, just before I turned 69, involved a motorcycle rider who claimed to have hit a pothole. He lost control, and slid along a guardrail. The rail was mounted on steel posts. He hit several of those posts, each inflicting further injury. He had about $700,000 in medical bills, as I recall. He did have a pretty decent recovery after a few years, though.

 

Of course, these sorts of experiences influenced my own outlook; entirely possible my perspective was distorted!

 

 

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