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Newbie 38/357 question.


Copper Sean O Driscoll

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I know that most people run 38 special loads in their guns but do most people used 38 special brass or 357Magn brass? Im still saving for my guns (as I am very new) but I do reload 38/357 all ready and want to get a head start on my ammo! 

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Hi Copper.  I'd estimate that ten people load .38 spcl brass to every one that loads .357 brass.  Some of that may be that someone just has a lot of .357 brass, but some of it is rifle dependent.  A '66 or '73 will run .38's just fine if they aren't too short (there is some variation, but usually anything 1.45" or longer).  Some Marlins and '92's like longer cartridges, so people either load a longer bullet in .38's for a longer OAL, or use .357 brass.  That is sort of an oversimplification, and even those Marlins and '92's can be tuned to run the regular .38's.

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The answer is partly economic.  We lose some rifle brass every match under props and into weeds.  Once-fired 38 Special brass is readily available online for a fraction of the cost of new brass - 357 mag once-fired brass is less available.  I load 38 Special rounds extra-long to feed better in a rifle chambered for .357s.  That way my lost brass costs me less.  Some matches like EOT are lost brass matches where you lose all your rifle brass.

 

I have two rifles that prefer .357 mag brass so I load that for them.

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My rifle had a problem with 38 Special cartridges so I went to 357 brass and now I never have any problems.  The 357 brass is slightly more expensive then 38 Spl.  but not enough to make it worth the wile for me to make two different cartridges for my rifle and pistols.  I have my press set up for 357 and don't have to adjust it for 38 Spl.  I only shoot local matches and I do loose some brass but sometimes I gain brass.  I don't know how I get extra brass in my bag.  I suspect that the previous owner was mean to them and they jumped ship for a kinder cowboy. LOL

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What type of rifle you end up with can also be a factor.  For a Bowning and Rossi 92 I found that only cartridges with an overall length of 1.58-1.59 fed reliably.  For a Marlin 94 carbine 10 rounds of 357mag length cartridges won't quite fit in the tube, but 10 38s can squeeze in there just fine.  The 1873 style action is more forgiving when it comes to cartridge length.  No matter what if you run a number of 38s and then want to switch to 357 brass your chamber/s will need a good cleaning.

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Ellie is running a .357 Marlin carbine. I'm loading 38 sp. brass with 125gr. TC bullets seated to the crimp groove. She has not had a single issue since starting out years ago. I did start with the 147 gr. Pills that could be seated longer if needed, but never had to. With the 125's, I'm using 2.8grs. of Clays.

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I run 38s in my pistols and 357s in my rifle at 1.58".  I use 130gr bullets to handle knockdowns with 3.5 gr of Trail boss or bullseye. I think I am the only 357 shooter at my club so everyone knows to come to me with any 357 brass. I use a lee 4 hole turret press and have heads for both calibers each with their own powder feed. I can change heads in 10 seconds. 

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For most people it depends on what feeds best in our rifles. When I shot a Marlin 94, it would not feed 38 due to them being too short. Switched to 357 and it fed fine. No longer shoot the 94 and use 38 for me and my wife. 38 is normally cheaper and easier to find once fired brass. I also load Black Powder in my 38s now. Good luck. For my wifes 38 I use 2.5 grains of Clays powder and a 105 Truncated cone bullet

 

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While I do not shoot .38/.357 for SASS, I can offer something along the same lines.   I have two 92's in .44 Magnum, a pre safety Rossi and a real Winchester that started life as a .38-40 that someone rebarreled.  But had issues with stovepipping if I tried running .44 Specials in them.  Switched to using Magnums, but way downloaded, and they never give me a problem again.

 

My brother did have a safety Rossi in .357 Magnum, and he had occasional feed issues with the .38 Special.

 

Based on all of that, I'd say that if you wanna run .38 Special, get a rifle specifically chambered for it, not one in .357 Magnum.   Revolvers on the other hand have no problem with the shorter shells, aside from the "carbon ring problem" with cleanup.  But if you are careful, I've not found that it be much of a problem.  That being said, since I do have revolvers in .44 Special, I very rarely bother to run them in my .44 Magnums.  I do the same thing with my (non-SASS) .38's and .357's.

 

Good luck, and happy shooting.  

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A Slix scraper does a fine job of removing the carbon ring from shorter cartridges.

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What everyone else said /\ /\ /\ /\

My B-92 won't eat .38SPL and so it gets only .357MAG.  Bullion Rose's Ruger NMVs wouldn't care either way and since she doesn't mind a little recoil I load only one .357MAG for us both, 3.2gr Red Dot under 125gr coated RNFP bullets.

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7 hours ago, VICIOUS, SASS#8014 said:

HOWDY it sure would be be too bad if you loaded a batch of ammo to find out your rifle would not chamber and cycle it.

             Rifle first, test loads, load the heck out of proven load.

This!  Depends alot on the rifle.  We shoot alot and travel throughout the country and as stated above more people we've shot with use 38's in their 73's than those that shoot 357's in them.  Most (and this is a generalization) people that we've run into that use 357's are using a Marlin or Rossi.  In our 73's we use either 105 or 125 grn bullets in our 38 cases with American Select powder and they work great in our rifles (6 of them).  And they work in other people's guns whenever we've had to share ammo with someone who had issues with their ammo.  

Welcome to the fire and good luck.  Hope to someday shoot with you.

Roper

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I load 38 brass with using 158 grain bullets. OAL is 1.55 to 1.56. This has worked well in my 73s.

Longhunter has a good explanation of problems with cartridge length on his website, longhunt.com.

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.38 brass 125 gr bullet with an OAL of 1.48 and 3.6 grains of TiteGroup. I use a 73 and a 66 

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I use 3.1 g of Cleanshot, 125g RNFL in both .38 and .357. The 38 goes in Jersey Bratt's 94 Marlin, the .357 in my 73. My 73 likes the longer cartridge and the Marlin wont hold ten 357 length rounds even though it will feed fine. So, like others have said, It depends...

 

Welcome to the game   Imis

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I have a Uberti '73 that shoots 38's with 125gr TC bullets reliably. I have two Marlin 94's that will only shoot 38's with 125gr RNFP bullets. I had a Rossi 92 that would not shoot any 38's no matter what bullet tip and length I tried. That rifle is gone. It boils down to what will reliably chamber and what won't.

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As above, used 38 Special brass is easy to find and cheap, used 357 not so much. If you are buying new Starline brass, the cost is about the same. 

 

I've used 38 Special, 38 Long Colt, 357 magnum and in the end, in my pistols, 357 gets the nod. I use a wadcutter at about 750 fps, it shoots to the sights and shoots clean. At cowboy distances it is accurate. I hate cleaning the crud ring. 

 

I have a 38 Special rifle, a 66 Cimarron, and I have a 38 special Mason-Richards on the way. That may change what I shoot in the 357s. Rifles don't tend to crud up like revolvers., that 22 Short, Long, Long Rifle thing I suppose. Depending on the bullet, sometimes a more ideal OAL can be had with 38 Spl brass.

 

Lots of the seasoned shooters are sitting on several 5 gal pails of 38 Spl brass, so that is what they shoot. Most they got for free. I like to shoot nickel plated in my rifles, less get lost and they run cleaner IMHO. They are even cheaper than the brass ones because most reloaders don't like them.

 

BB

 

 

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On 12/13/2022 at 3:38 PM, Eyesa Horg said:

Ellie is running a .357 Marlin carbine. I'm loading 38 sp. brass with 125gr. TC bullets seated to the crimp groove. She has not had a single issue since starting out years ago. I did start with the 147 gr. Pills that could be seated longer if needed, but never had to. With the 125's, I'm using 2.8grs. of Clays.

im doing the same as above , i have a friend that loads 357 , i just pass those on and use all the 38s ive accumulated - quite a lot , i use mine in revolvers and marlin rifle without issue so far , 

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I run .38 brass in my revolvers (not magtech because for some reason it expanded a lot easier than other brands, making it extremely difficult to extract).

In my rifle, I currently run 357 only because I had a large stock of 125gr lrnfp bullets that didn't make the COAL of .38s at least 1.415". That's my magic number to get my rifle to cycle rounds. I got a bunch of lead casting equipment to start casting a longer profile 125gr bullet that will cycle in my rifle, so I imagine I'll start slowly weening my rifle off of 357 and just compete with 38s to keep the loading table and cart storage simple. But I won't hesitate to get more 357 nickel brass for as good of a deal as I got my last 300! 

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Use nothing but .38 and all Starline brass with Winchester brass as our back up. Clays powder, 105gr coated bullet's, Federal primers with back-up of Winchester primers.

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