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U.S. to announce fusion energy ‘breakthrough’


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22 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I'm still waiting for the solar powered hydrogen fuel producing machine I can set out in my yard.  Then I can fill up my truck with free hydrogen anytime I need to.  

 

 

You won't see it until "They" are able to figure out a way to tax the Hydrogen you extract from the air.

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I'll reserve judgement or jubilation until I see it happen.  whistling

 

Seems like we've seen this sort of "announcement" about every ten or fifteen years or so since the 1950's.  :rolleyes:

 

https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i44/Cold-fusion-died-25-years.html

 

 

Quote

 

IN BRIEF

In 1989, the scientific world was turned upside down when two researchers announced they had tamed the power of nuclear fusion in a simple electrolysis cell. The excitement quickly died when the scientific community came to a consensus that the findings weren’t real—“cold fusion” became a synonym for junk science. In the quarter-century since, a surprising number of researchers continue to report unexplainable excess heat effects in similar experiments, and several companies have announced plans to commercialize technologies, hoping to revolutionize the energy industry. Yet, no one has delivered on their promises. In the pages that follow, C&EN explores several possible conclusions: The claims are correct, but need more time to develop; those making the claims are committing an elaborate ruse; or it really is junk science that won’t go away.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Still will need the steam. Still a very, very long way to go.

Just heard some expert say 10 years to get it to the grid. Hope I live to see it!:o

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there was a key phrase in that story -" being able to smash two atoms together at high veocity without expending more energy than you produce " . my advice to the admin , "dont take credit fpr something until it is viable" , 

 

they already took credit for tax payer funded wind and solar , 

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I will believe we are on the way to free energy when matter conversion technology makes it possible to convert politician’s verbal bull **** into solid form to be used as fertilizer and power station fuel. 

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The National Ignition Facility where this took place is an enormous proof of principal facility.  There are conceptual designs to convert the kinetic energy of the neutrons produced to useful energy.  I doubt a small scale production facility would be complete and operating in ten years.  Conceptual designs need to be produced, funds appropriated by congress, environmental impact evaluations made, facilities constructed under government regulations, and finally operational readiness reviews performed all before the facility is operated and perhaps made to work.  Ten years just isn't enough time the way the federal government operates in peacetime.

 

Kudos to the scientists and engineers who achieved breakeven.  This has been a decades-long endeavor.

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I do hope this is a serious breakthrough.  I remember hearing or reading somewhere that a single tablespoon of tap water would have enough energy from fusion to power a city the size of Chicago for a full 24-hour day.  That would indeed be amazing. The fact that science has now done it, even on a small scale, is in my thinking, significant. Baby steps to giant leaps.

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6 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I do hope this is a serious breakthrough.  I remember hearing or reading somewhere that a single tablespoon of tap water would have enough energy from fusion to power a city the size of Chicago for a full 24-hour day.  That would indeed be amazing. The fact that science has now done it, even on a small scale, is in my thinking, significant. Baby steps to giant leaps.

 

A-a-a-a-n-d I recall back in the early days of nukular power that electricity was going to be so plentiful and cheap that power would be sold by subscription instead of being metered.

 

Besides -- didn't Doc Brown already have a Mr. Fusion in his DeLorean? 

 

TechRestore's "Back to the Future" Delorean! | Mr Fusion: Ho… | Flickr

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12 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I do hope this is a serious breakthrough.  I remember hearing or reading somewhere that a single tablespoon of tap water would have enough energy from fusion to power a city the size of Chicago for a full 24-hour day.  That would indeed be amazing. The fact that science has now done it, even on a small scale, is in my thinking, significant. Baby steps to giant leaps.

Most of the hydrogen in water is the most common isotope of hydrogen - protium.  Protium is fused in the interior of stars making much of the energy that makes them shine.  In laboratories the uncommon hydrogen isotopes of deuterium and tritium are fused.  This nuclear reaction takes much less energy.  Tap water by itself is not a feedstock for proposed fusion reactors.  I once took an evening automotive maintenance class where the instructor told the class there would soon be automobiles with a fusion reactor under the hood fueled by water from a garden hose.  I cringed but decided there was not time to correct the man's ignorance.

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On 12/12/2022 at 2:16 PM, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said:

Is this another way to heat water to make steam to drive a turbine coupled to an alternator ?

 

 ...... or, a way to make electricity without the steam ??  :huh:

A thermopile which is many thermocouples connected in series to get desired voltage and many paralleled series strings to get desired current output.  This is how deep space satellites are powered with radioactive core as heat source.

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6 hours ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said:

The NIF is located at the LL Natl. lab in CA.  It is a VERY legitimate facility. I do occasional work for  them.

The LLNL is located on the east side of Livermore which is the north east part of Alameda County which is across the bay from SF.

21 hours ago, watab kid said:

there was a key phrase in that story -" being able to smash two atoms together at high velocity without expending more energy than you produce " . my advice to the admin , "dont take credit fpr something until it is viable" , 

 

they already took credit for tax payer funded wind and solar , 

The NIF uses multiple high energy laser beams to compress & super heat a pellet  containing deuterium & tritium.  A 2 megajoules of laser energy produced 3 mJ.  It took 300 mJ of laser power to hit the fuel pellet.

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20 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

From water. There is vitually no hydrogen in the air.

 

YEP.

I knew that!

(I'm not REALLY getting senile)

Trust me, 

I'm a liberal. I'd never lie to you.

slap.gif

facepalm.gif

redface.png

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2 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

The NIF uses multiple high energy laser beams to compress & super heat a pellet  containing deuterium & tritium.  A 2 megajoules of laser energy produced 3 mJ.  It took 300 mJ of laser power to hit the fuel pellet.

If I understand this correctly, it still requires a lot of energy to produce a little. 
 

This is an interesting thread. Thanks pards. I learn something new every day! 
 

edit: if you put mJ or MJ into Google, most all of the results are Michael Jackson, followed by Michael Jordan. :huh:
 

 

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well , michael jackson has nothing to do with it and yes we have not come close to a perpetual motion machine yet , it takes too much energy to produce too little so far , hydrogen would be a near perfect combustible fuel , based solely on what we have for regulations and our understanding of pollution these days - but hey , water may well become a pollutant down the road - who knew carbon dioxide would be ? its a natural product of our breathing and required by plants .........but hey kill off the people , the plants will die off , the world will be better off ..........

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On 12/12/2022 at 6:00 PM, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I'm still waiting for the solar powered hydrogen fuel producing machine I can set out in my yard.  Then I can fill up my truck with free hydrogen anytime I need to.  

And I'm still waiting for that Merwin and Hulbert repro.

 

I gotta feeling I'll end my wait before you end yours, Bob.

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There is an active fusion development program in progress - a spin-off from MIT.  Huge new facility in Devens, MA, and apparently the funding and wherewithal to get it done.  We'll see.

 

https://www.cfsatdevens.info/

https://courbanize.com/projects/cfs-devens/information

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Fusion_Systems

 

LL

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On 12/12/2022 at 9:44 PM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I will believe we are on the way to free energy when matter conversion technology makes it possible to convert politician’s verbal bull **** into solid form to be used as fertilizer and power station fuel. 

Never will happen.  Since before this country was founded no useful use has been found for politicians. 

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On 12/14/2022 at 6:47 AM, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

There is an active fusion development program in progress - a spin-off from MIT.  Huge new facility in Devens, MA, and apparently the funding and wherewithal to get it done.  We'll see.

 

https://www.cfsatdevens.info/

https://courbanize.com/projects/cfs-devens/information

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Fusion_Systems

 

LL

The NIF was built to heat the hydrogen isotopes to extreme temps that fusion occurs.  The Devens MA facility will work on creating a sustained reaction within containment.

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