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Pitbulls


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23 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

The old adage, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners is generally true.  Dogs usually like dog people, and I would sure hate to shoot a dog, but large dogs can easily do great bodily harm.

Unfortunately with this breed that adage is no longer true. The Staffordshire Terrier is a phenomenal dog, however the breed has been imbred so badly into the "Pit Bull", for dog fighting, security, or just plain neglect and cruelty that it's destroyed the breed. There are so many cases of where people have gotten one that was good mannered and calm natured, even for years, then for no reason whatsoever has attacked and severity injured abs in some cases killed their owners/ family. That's not a bad owner that's a brain damaged breed. 

 

I've had my issues with these types of dogs and have put several down over the years after they've killed my animals. I don't like it, but my animals are not going to suffer/ die on their property due to the nature of the owner or the breed. 

 

JEL

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Our boys grew up with English Springer Spaniels that were great for pheasant hunting. The dog would stay in the yard as the kids would play with the neighbor kids, and chase balls and sticks the kids would throw.

 

One afternoon the dog was sitting on the front steps with our youngest son and a neighbor girl, both around 3 years old. An uncle of the girl, who we did not know, ran down the sidewalk toward her to grab her as a joke.

 

The Springer went into full defense mode, growling, showing teeth, hair standing up, and was between the uncle and the kids. We got her and held her, with the uncle telling his brother his neighbors have a vicious dog that shouldn't be around kids.

 

The next time I saw our vet I told him the story. He said the dog did exactly what is was supposed to do. The uncle was a stranger rapidly approaching children and was an unknown threat.

 

The neighbors confided in us later that the uncle was kind of an oddball, and they hoped the incident would keep his visits to a minimum.

 

My insurance carriers always asked about the dog breed at renewal time. When I told them the breed they always seemed relieved.

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21 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Why choose a pit bull in the first place? A real question. There are many breeds of all kinds to choose from. Pit pulls can no doubt be wonderfully friendly. But they aren't exactly famous for it. It's not their foremost characteristic vis a vis other breeds.

 

What would be the reason for the choice in the first instance? It has to say something about the outlook of the owner. Or so it seems to me. Maybe not; don't know. But if I were a new dog owner, considering from a great many breeds, why would I choose that one? The known aggressiveness of the type must be part of the decision.

 

 

A Sheriff's Dep friend said people get Pit Bulls to delay the police at the door long enough to flush the drugs.  Police here don't hesitate to dispatch them at the first sign of aggression,  when serving warrants.   

 

I think

many others get Pit Bulls mostly to make some kind of independence  statement.  But it would be a lot  better if they had the intellect to understand their own statement a little better.  

Demonstrating a total lack of caring about anyone else's well being isn't much to take pride in.   

 

Unlike most others here, I have shot three Pit Bulls at my ranch.  One was running a doe and fawn, another attacked my neighbor's horse (with her riding it), and the third made me jump into my pickup bed.  Two went down almost instantly, shot in the side of the head with a 9mm jacketed solid point.  The other caved in when hit by a .357 mag. 160gn hp, fired down between the shoulder blades from a pickup bed.  I don't like shooting dogs (or any mammal, any more), but I don't hesitate to take needed care of my family, property, health, neighbors and wildlife. 

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What the heck are people doing to those pits? I ended up with a bully and he is pretty benign and mellow. He is protective of the grands and has never even looked funny at them or my wife. The pits get a bad rap from the ones that are abused and turn mean to survive their owners.  

I think some people get them because they like or love the breed has nothing to do with personal statement. Why have a hound dog, personal statement or personal choice? I would think choice same as with any other breed. Like you said I won't hesitate to protect mine, family or animals alike. 

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One of the sweetest dogs I ever had for a friend was a purebred Blood Hound.  Well behaved and in many ways, much his own creature.  They don't even make the insurance risk list.  If I were a few years younger, when one of the Old Boys passes, I'd get another.

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57 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

 The pits get a bad rap from the ones that are abused and turn mean to survive their owners.  

 

 

But what of the countless stories of loved from puppy pitbulls in families and one day they rip apart the children?

 

https://7news.com.au/news/dog-attack/baby-and-toddler-mauled-to-death-by-familys-pet-pit-bulls-mother-in-critical-condition-c-8484002

 

 

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3 hours ago, Slapshot said:

What the heck are people doing to those pits? I ended up with a bully and he is pretty benign and mellow. He is protective of the grands and has never even looked funny at them or my wife. The pits get a bad rap from the ones that are abused and turn mean to survive their owners.  

I think some people get them because they like or love the breed has nothing to do with personal statement. Why have a hound dog, personal statement or personal choice? I would think choice same as with any other breed. Like you said I won't hesitate to protect mine, family or animals alike. 

Everybody who has a PB defends their beloved pets.  That is natural.  But somebody's beloved pets are in the news fairly frequently for killing their owners, their owners kids, or unrelated people.  They are predictably a tough,  tenacious, powerful   fighting breed. 

 

Trying to train generations of selective breeding out of an animal is not reliably possible. It's like trying to train the wool off of a sheep, when sheep are bred to produce it.  Behavior is a breed characteristic, like any other bred-in GENETIC trait.   You cannot depend on training to reverse or overcome that trait selection and genetics. 

 

And every animal can get a brain tumor or suffer pain, at which point they cannot be predicted.  So the issue is to only keep animals that you are 100% sure you can physically restrain and control if those kinds of things happen.   So, can you pry a big pit bull's mouth open, off of a kid or other dog?

 

I would NEVER keep a Pit Bull Terrier where it has access to children.  Kids have a way of unknowingly hurting animals, and Pit Bulls are bred to deal with pain aggressively. 

 

I wrote here a year ago about a past employee whose wife was killed in his back yard by her two long-term beloved PB pets, while he was away.  The water hose was running so he surmised she tried to break up a fight.   Again, you just cannot reliably train selective  breeding out of an animal.  Size, strength, tenacity and aggression are, and were, the traits bred for in PBs and all other  fighting dogs. 

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1 hour ago, Quiet Burp said:

 

But what of the countless stories of loved from puppy pitbulls in families and one day they rip apart the children?

 

https://7news.com.au/news/dog-attack/baby-and-toddler-mauled-to-death-by-familys-pet-pit-bulls-mother-in-critical-condition-c-8484002

 

 

Do we judge all Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Do we blame all gun owners by the actions of some POS who commits a horrible crime with a gun?

So why blame all pit bulls based on the actions of a few?   

Think of all the times the MSM has gotten their facts wrong, why are  you sure that the MSM is 100% right when it comes to "pit bull" attacks?

 

That few number of pit bulls that probably weren't properly trained or socialized.  That were trained to be vicious or perhaps their humans missed the warning signs.  Or were abused or abandoned by their humans.

 

As I have stated up thread, I am a volunteer at a dog shelter/rescue and we get a lot of pit bulls come through.  I've lost count how many I have personally walked and easily 50+ have come through the shelter during the time I've been there and only two could not be rehabilitated. 

 

https://petpedia.co/pit-bull-statistics/

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7 minutes ago, Chantry said:

Do we judge all Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Do we blame all gun owners by the actions of some POS who commits a horrible crime with a gun?

So why blame all pit bulls based on the actions of a few?   

 

That few number of pit bulls that probably weren't properly trained or socialized.  That were trained to be vicious or perhaps their humans missed the warning signs.  Or were abused or abandoned by their humans.

 

As I have stated up thread, I am a volunteer at a dog shelter/rescue and we get a lot of pit bulls come through.  I've lost count how many I have personally walked and easily 50+ have come through the shelter during the time I've been there and only two could not be rehabilitated. 

Having a pet that is bred to fight/kill, and which you cannot physically control or restrain is irresponsible, IMO.  

It isn't about people using a broad brush to judge or convict all Pit Bulls.  It is about people keeping fighting breeds that they don't have the physical size and ability to contain and control, when the unexpected happens. 

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2 minutes ago, Chantry said:

Do we judge all Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Do we blame all gun owners by the actions of some POS who commits a horrible crime with a gun?

So why blame all pit bulls based on the actions of a few?   

 

That few number of pit bulls that probably weren't properly trained or socialized.  That were trained to be vicious or perhaps their humans missed the warning signs.  Or were abused or abandoned by their humans.

 

As I have stated up thread, I am a volunteer at a dog shelter/rescue and we get a lot of pit bulls come through.  I've lost count how many I have personally walked and easily 50+ have come through the shelter during the time I've been there and only two could not be rehabilitated. 

 

I wouldn't let toddlers play around with loaded firearms.

I wouldn't allow any children I had control over to be around pitbulls.

Those children in the article (and its just one, you could trawl the net and get 100s of stories) were mauled and ripped apart for TEN MINUTES whilst the mother tried in vain to save and she ended up in hospital with uncountable wounds and stitches.

There were family pets, raised with love and they had known these children since there were born.

 

Who would ever take the risk to be in that situation and live with that regret for the rest of their life.

 

Some things just don't make sense to me. We can't legally carry here in Australia, but I read often on here that some folks won't even go to the corner store or out to the mailbox in their dressing gown unless their strapped and packing heat "just in case".

 

But folks would have these canine killing machines around their families and little children?????

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41 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Having a pet that is bred to fight/kill, and which you cannot physically control or restrain is irresponsible, IMO.  

It isn't about people using a broad brush to judge or convict all Pit Bulls.  It is about people keeping fighting breeds that they don't have the physical size and ability to contain and control, when the unexpected happens. 

 

I'll agree that people shouldn't have  a dog that they can't physically contract or restrain.  I also don't think that any of the "pit bull" breeds* are a good choice for the first time dog owner.

 

Some years ago I did some research and as far as I could find, pit bull attacks didn't start becoming an issue until the mid 1980's.  I also came across a case where a Pomeranian killed an new born baby and a Golden Retriever killed a child.  Now in the case of the Golden Retrieve I think the dog was either playing or decided to "retrieve" the child, because the death was caused by the dog grabbing the hood of the jacket the child was wearing and started dragging the kid which led to her being strangled.

 

* There are any number of breeds, some popular and common, big to small, that are bad choices for first time dog owners

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32 minutes ago, Quiet Burp said:

 

But folks would have these canine killing machines around their families and little children?????

 

Sounds like something I would hear from the MSM

 

From my link:

"Pit Bulls and Pit Bull mixes are believed to have killed 33 Americans in 2018.

(Dogsbite.org)

Statistics on Pit Bull attacks for the following year show there were 48 dog bite-related deaths in the US in 2019. Moreover, 69% of them are attributed to Pit Bulls."

 

Certainly any death under such circumstances is tragic, but "death by pit bull" is hardly an epidemic

 

Per the CDC there were 2,839,205 deaths in the US.  So your chances of dying from a pit bull attack are ridiculously small.

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I know that I wouldn't want to have to go tell these families that their loved ones, some as young a 1 year old, were torn apart by these gentle, misunderstood dogs.:blink:

 

When you read the list, seems like the elderly and very young make up the majority of victims.

 

https://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/#:~:text=From 2013 to 2020%2C the most recent 8-year,cities%2C counties and even nations adopt these laws.

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22 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

I know that I wouldn't want to have to go tell these families that their loved ones, some as young a 1 year old, were torn apart by these gentle, misunderstood dogs.

 

When you read the list, seems like the elderly and very young make up the majority of victims.

 

https://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/#:~:text=From 2013 to 2020%2C the most recent 8-year,cities%2C counties and even nations adopt these laws.

 

Oh my Lord....look at the photos of those innocent children. Why would anyone trust a pitbull that was bred and has it in its DNA to inflict horrific injuries and to kill with an extreme prey drive around children willingly. 

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Sorry, everyone.  I remain unconvinced that dogs bred for size and aggressive fighting are also safe family dogs.  "Breeding" means genetics.  So tenacious fighting behavior has been made an integral part of their physical genome.  They cannot change it, and neither can we; not through training nor affection, nor relationships with them.

 

Statistics are great, but there are still people who get mauled, and if you become one, the rarity of the occurrence doesn't hold much comfort.

 

Chantry, You present good facts, but not enough to overcome my biology and genetics background.  So I'm still unconvinced.  And I really don't think I will succeed in convincing you either, despite long rhetoric here.  So I'll just leave this item with my prayer that you or your loved ones don't ever become PB  statistics; rare or otherwise.  Thanks for the v. good exchange here.

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The point isn't that pit bulls are likely to harm people. No doubt, it's unlikely in the great majority of cases. But they are more likely to harm people than many other breeds. That's really all that matters when making a choice.

 

Prevention of harm is always a matter of readiness for events that individually are unlikely to happen. We act to decrease the risk of those events, that's all. Because if they do happen, the outcomes can be very bad.

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8 hours ago, Quiet Burp said:

 

But what of the countless stories of loved from puppy pitbulls in families and one day they rip apart the children?

 

https://7news.com.au/news/dog-attack/baby-and-toddler-mauled-to-death-by-familys-pet-pit-bulls-mother-in-critical-condition-c-8484002

 

 

Yes because they are the story. How many times you here of other breeds? Do you really think that only pits attack , bite, hurt people? 

 

6 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Having a pet that is bred to fight/kill, and which you cannot physically control or restrain is irresponsible, IMO.  

It isn't about people using a broad brush to judge or convict all Pit Bulls.  It is about people keeping fighting breeds that they don't have the physical size and ability to contain and control, when the unexpected happens. 

I guess then no one should own a Great Dane, German Shepard, Dobe or any of the other working breeds that at one time in there life they was used for attack dogs or police , military work. Have you ever tried to break up 2 dogs fighting that wasn't pits? I have and have tried to break up fight when one was a pit. Not much difference when they are fighting.

 

4 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Sorry, everyone.  I remain unconvinced that dogs bred for size and aggressive fighting are also safe family dogs.  "Breeding" means genetics.  So tenacious fighting behavior has been made an integral part of their physical genome.  They cannot change it, and neither can we; not through training nor affection, nor relationships with them.

 

Statistics are great, but there are still people who get mauled, and if you become one, the rarity of the occurrence doesn't hold much comfort.

 

Chantry, You present good facts, but not enough to overcome my biology and genetics background.  So I'm still unconvinced.  And I really don't think I will succeed in convincing you either, despite long rhetoric here.  So I'll just leave this item with my prayer that you or your loved ones don't ever become PB  statistics; rare or otherwise.  Thanks for the v. good exchange here.

So you don't think German shepherds, Great danes or any other dog that was bred for police military work? 

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7 hours ago, Slapshot said:

Yes because they are the story. How many times you here of other breeds? Do you really think that only pits attack , bite, hurt people? 

 

I guess then no one should own a Great Dane, German Shepard, Dobe or any of the other working breeds that at one time in there life they was used for attack dogs or police , military work. Have you ever tried to break up 2 dogs fighting that wasn't pits? I have and have tried to break up fight when one was a pit. Not much difference when they are fighting.

 

So you don't think German shepherds, Great danes or any other dog that was bred for police military work? 

There is a big difference with these dog attacks. In my experience, 28 years as a patrol LEO, in my county we have to work ALL dog bites. The dogs I've seen bite fall into three categories. The first are very old, usually small breeds, that are usually blind and deaf and are very touchy because even petting them hurts them. Next are the ones due to straight, outright, neglect. The third fall into the "Pitbull/Pitbull" mix. This breed just cannot be trusted. I cannot recall how many times I have worked dog bites where the calm natured, family pit since puppyhood, just instantly lashed out and bit for no reason at all. In numerous cases very severely. Get a pit into a group of dogs and it's exponentially worse.  

 

With this said. I have one of these dogs. It's a pit/lab mix that was used as a bait dog in a fighting ring. If you don't know what that is it's a dog that's used to rile up the dogs before they fight. They hold them just close enough for the fight dog to attack and get amped up. We rescued her after she escaped and soon after the fighting ring was busted. The cruelty they do to these animals is unimaginable. This dog (found on Christmas Eve so we named her Holly) was/is scarred from face to tail with bite marks. We spent $3000 on caps for her teeth because they filed their teeth down to the nerves so the bait dog cannot bite back and pre-injure the fight dog. This dog is smart. She will play fetch and does all of the tricks of sit, stay, come, etc. She is also very sweet when you approach her face to face and move calmly. She does NOT like to be touched. You can occasionally scratch her head for a few seconds, but that's it. If you make any abrupt movements around her she will instantly and violently bite. She was in that dog ring for only a couple of months (they don't usually live very long in that capacity) and we've had her over 12 years so we assume she's around 13-14 years old. She's now a old dog that has been blessed with a very good life, but I have zero doubt that she would bite me today if I don't watch myself around her. I cannot tell you how many times I have almost put her down. You cannot train this breeding and treatment out of a dog. She has a large chain link kennel that I built inside my house that she lives in. She is NOT and has not ever been allowed to be around my kids. She was also separated from all of my other dogs (who have now all gone over the rainbow bridge, she's the last dog we will have for awhile once she's gone) because I, not for one second, trust her. She is dangerous to this day. 

 

I could go on with numerous stories about these dogs either personal or work related and they're all so similar. Are all "pitbulls" bad? certainly not, but unfortunately you could never tell which are the ones that will snap and react violently and which are ones that won't.  

 

I would love to have a Blue Nose Staffordshire Terrier. They are such cool looking and smart dogs, but I don't trust the breed due to the decades of size/aggressive breeding tactics, the inbreeding, the neglect and violent training etc. YMMV, but after my experience both at work, dealing with my farm and animals, and owning one of these dogs I would not have or ever recommend one of these dogs to anyone. 

 

JEL

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7 hours ago, Slapshot said:

Yes because they are the story. How many times you here of other breeds? Do you really think that only pits attack , bite, hurt people? 

 

I guess then no one should own a Great Dane, German Shepard, Dobe or any of the other working breeds that at one time in there life they was used for attack dogs or police , military work. Have you ever tried to break up 2 dogs fighting that wasn't pits? I have and have tried to break up fight when one was a pit. Not much difference when they are fighting.

 

So you don't think German shepherds, Great danes or any other dog that was bred for police military work? 

 

Factual statistics don't lie. The statistics below (verifiable by many different sources) show that Pits Bulls are far and above any other breed for fatal attacks. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/09/13/americas-most-dangerous-dog-breeds-infographic/?sh=315fcb9b62f8

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1 hour ago, John E. Law said:

There is a big difference with these dog attacks. In my experience, 28 years as a patrol LEO, in my county we have to work ALL dog bites. The dogs I've seen bite fall into three categories. The first are very old, usually small breeds, that are usually blind and deaf and are very touchy because even petting them hurts them. Next are the ones due to straight, outright, neglect. The third fall into the "Pitbull/Pitbull" mix. This breed just cannot be trusted. I cannot recall how many times I have worked dog bites where the calm natured, family pit since puppyhood, just instantly lashed out and bit for no reason at all. In numerous cases very severely. Get a pit into a group of dogs and it's exponentially worse.  

 

With this said. I have one of these dogs. It's a pit/lab mix that was used as a bait dog in a fighting ring. If you don't know what that is it's a dog that's used to rile up the dogs before they fight. They hold them just close enough for the fight dog to attack and get amped up. We rescued her after she escaped and soon after the fighting ring was busted. The cruelty they do to these animals is unimaginable. This dog (found on Christmas Eve so we named her Holly) was/is scarred from face to tail with bite marks. We spent $3000 on caps for her teeth because they filed their teeth down to the nerves so the bait dog cannot bite back and pre-injure the fight dog. This dog is smart. She will play fetch and does all of the tricks of sit, stay, come, etc. She is also very sweet when you approach her face to face and move calmly. She does NOT like to be touched. You can occasionally scratch her head for a few seconds, but that's it. If you make any abrupt movements around her she will instantly and violently bite. She was in that dog ring for only a couple of months (they don't usually live very long in that capacity) and we've had her over 12 years so we assume she's around 13-14 years old. She's now a old dog that has been blessed with a very good life, but I have zero doubt that she would bite me today if I don't watch myself around her. I cannot tell you how many times I have almost put her down. You cannot train this breeding and treatment out of a dog. She has a large chain link kennel that I built inside my house that she lives in. She is NOT and has not ever been allowed to be around my kids. She was also separated from all of my other dogs (who have now all gone over the rainbow bridge, she's the last dog we will have for awhile once she's gone) because I, not for one second, trust her. She is dangerous to this day. 

 

I could go on with numerous stories about these dogs either personal or work related and they're all so similar. Are all "pitbulls" bad? certainly not, but unfortunately you could never tell which are the ones that will snap and react violently and which are ones that won't.  

 

I would love to have a Blue Nose Staffordshire Terrier. They are such cool looking and smart dogs, but I don't trust the breed due to the decades of size/aggressive breeding tactics, the inbreeding, the neglect and violent training etc. YMMV, but after my experience both at work, dealing with my farm and animals, and owning one of these dogs I would not have or ever recommend one of these dogs to anyone. 

 

JEL

All good info. But I still don't believe they are just breed to trip off line. I think their masters set the trend on their behavior for the most part. Rottweilers, Dobes, GS's they are all bred for protection dogs. My wife actually bit by a pit one time. Wasn't pretty. But considering the owners I have my doubts that the dog wasn't misused and fought . But just as with people I'll choose not to stereo type them as a breed but will consider each dog on his own merits. I have seen plenty other dogs that wasn't nice.  Small dog breeds are a mean lot , luckily their bites don't do the damage so they are givin a pass. Sadly as a society also we can never tell which human will snap next.

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1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Factual statistics don't lie. The statistics below (verifiable by many different sources) show that Pits Bulls are far and above any other breed for fatal attacks. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/09/13/americas-most-dangerous-dog-breeds-infographic/?sh=315fcb9b62f8

I researched quite a bit earlier today. And while pits always had the most the info on the web varies widely from who you are referencing. And although statistics aren't supposed to lie , today they twist info to train the masses because we all know if it is on the web it can't be wrong. Interesting enough one source said Labadors was second to Pit bulls. Go figure.

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2 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

I researched quite a bit earlier today. And while pits always had the most the info on the web varies widely from who you are referencing. And although statistics aren't supposed to lie , today they twist info to train the masses because we all know if it is on the web it can't be wrong. Interesting enough one source said Labadors was second to Pit bulls. Go figure.

 

I was truly surprised that Labs made the list at all, but they did. I also did some research and while the individual numbers varied slightly...Pit Bulls always were at the top by a wide margin.

 

For the record, I don't have any prejudice against Pit Bulls or any other dog breed...but there are certain breeds that I don't trust or turn my back on if I can help it.

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6 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

All good info. But I still don't believe they are just breed to trip off line. I think their masters set the trend on their behavior for the most part. Rottweilers, Dobes, GS's they are all bred for protection dogs. My wife actually bit by a pit one time. Wasn't pretty. But considering the owners I have my doubts that the dog wasn't misused and fought . But just as with people I'll choose not to stereo type them as a breed but will consider each dog on his own merits. I have seen plenty other dogs that wasn't nice.  Small dog breeds are a mean lot , luckily their bites don't do the damage so they are givin a pass. Sadly as a society also we can never tell which human will snap next.

Yes, but for the most part Rotty's, Dobe's, GS's, Melonois', etc. are responsibly bred. Can you get a bad one and/or bad owner? Yes. The pit, however, is and has been getting bred purposefully for size and aggression. They want mean fighting dogs no matter the consequences, whereas the others are, for the most part, are bred and make great pets OR are trained to be tools for protection. 

 

I'm not trying to change your mind, you have your opinion and I have mine. I just pray that nothing tragic happens to you or your loved ones. I've had to pick up the pieces of many families, including my own, after these dogs have attacked.

 

JEL

 

 

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10 hours ago, Slapshot said:

Yes because they are the story. How many times you here of other breeds? Do you really think that only pits attack , bite, hurt people? 

 

I guess then no one should own a Great Dane, German Shepard, Dobe or any of the other working breeds that at one time in there life they was used for attack dogs or police , military work. Have you ever tried to break up 2 dogs fighting that wasn't pits? I have and have tried to break up fight when one was a pit. Not much difference when they are fighting.

 

So you don't think German shepherds, Great danes or any other dog that was bred for police military work? 

Fair enough.  But recall, I said I was respectfully  leaving this thread.  I don't think that my facts or opinions will do very much to convince people whose minds are pretty much made up.  No real point in debating here in the Saloon untill the last man is standing.  Everyone's points are fully valid, but the dogs don't know it.  They just do what they're bred and trained to do.  

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On 12/4/2022 at 6:48 AM, Buckshot Bear said:

 

 ......... as a follow-up to this incident, it was reported on the radio this morning that the dogs in this story have been put down.

 

wbj

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