USFA Rodeo II (38) vs Uberti (357)

[Wade Butcher]

I just purchased a beautiful USFA Rodeo II in [near] mint condition, and I'm wondering about the caliber rating of 38 Special only.

 

I've read that the USFA SAA-style revolvers are based on the same specs of the slightly oversized [as opposed to the original Colt] Uberti SAA design which is proof rated for 357 Magnum. If this information is true, then why is the USFA rated for 38 Special only while the [seemingly identical] Uberti is proof rated for the much more powerful 357 Magnum. The cylinder walls are the same thickness, and that's where the caliber pressure is most explosive and critical. I would assume that the 100% USA-made USFA would have used superior metals that were, at the very least, equal in quality and strength to Uberti's metals.

 

Is it simply that Uberti "proofs" their guns while USFA never actually bothered to proof test their own guns?

 

To be clear, I don't plan on shooting 357 Magnum from my USFA Rodeo II. I'm simply curious about the difference. That's all.

 

WB

Edited December 2, 2022 by Wade Butcher

[Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728]

Have you tried to put a .357 magnum cartridge in the USFA?  Probably doesn't go in all the way.  Reason being that the chamber is reamed for 38 Special not .357 magnum.  Colt chambered many SAA's for 38 Special.  When USFA was in business you could order revolvers in many different calibers.  Ordered a consecutive serial numbered pair in 38-40 for a customer. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

European guns are required buy their laws to be proofed.

No such law in the U.S.A.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

I have a pair of USFA Rodeo cylinders in 357.
They evidently were from a shipment sent to Doug Turnbull, that he never finished, so they were sold after USFA stopped making Rodeos.

They drop right into my 38 Rodeos & work perfectly fine.

--Dawg

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

• Theoretically a gun chambered for .38 will be slightly more accurate than a .357 cylinder shooting .38's, due to "bullet jump".  It would never be noticed for CAS.  Plus, as mentioned, Colt chambered some in .38 so USFA did likewise.  They also knew that mostly the Rodeo's were being sold to CAS shooters who would be using .38.   I don't think cartridge pressure really has much if anything to do with it.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

The .38s used a conical firing pin.  The .357s used a pin with a smaller diameter nose that floats to center it in the frame.  The smaller diameter accomodates higher pressure.

[Griff]

I certainly don't believe everything I read on the internet... but... one of the big advertising points USFA made was that their SA was the same as the original Colt, even to being able to interchange parts.   Don't confuse "chambering" to "proof testing".  USFA Rodeos were also produced in .357 Mag, .45 Colt, .38-40 & .44-40, as well as .32-20 IIRC.  While there are bigger framed Uberti single actions, these are fairly rare, & of earlier production.  None of the current models are larger framed then their Colt counterparts.  While Piettas, differ in size, they along with Uberti, must pass Italian Proof houses to be marketed by law as noted above.

 

Some folks prefer to have their revolver chambered in .38 Spl, rather than .38/.357 Mag if their only intent is to shoot .38 specials or to really have the most potential for accuracy.  The bullet jump between case and rifling leade being a factor in accuracy.  Probably much more important @ rifle distances vs. handgun.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I don't think I’ve ever seen an Uberti in .38 spl only.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Rye Miles #13621

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Conical firing pin top.  Tapered firing pin bottom.

 

 

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

I think Larsen hit it on the head the firing pin due to it's conical style doesn't handle the higher pressure 357 well.

This from their catalog:

The Single Action ~ Specifications
45 Colt
.45 ACP (cylinder
.44 Special
.44 WCF
.44 Colt
41 Colt{
.38 Special
.38 WCF
.32 WCF
.22 L.R. /.22 Mag.

357  was Never a cataloged item, special order ONLY.
 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

I certainly don't believe everything I read on the internet... but... one of the big advertising points USFA made was that their SA was the same as the original Colt, even to being able to interchange parts.   Don't confuse "chambering" to "proof testing".  USFA Rodeos were also produced in .357 Mag, .45 Colt, .38-40 & .44-40, as well as .32-20 IIRC.  While there are bigger framed Uberti single actions, these are fairly rare, & of earlier production.  None of the current models are larger framed then their Colt counterparts.  While Piettas, differ in size, they along with Uberti, must pass Italian Proof houses to be marketed by law as noted above.

 

Some folks prefer to have their revolver chambered in .38 Spl, rather than .38/.357 Mag if their only intent is to shoot .38 specials or to really have the most potential for accuracy.  The bullet jump between case and rifling leade being a factor in accuracy.  Probably much more important @ rifle distances vs. handgun.

I didn't measure frame size, but cylinders (as close as I can measure with my caliper):

Current Uberti: 1.670"

Pietta: 1.657"

3rd gen Colt: 1.654"

1915 1st gen Colt: 1.65"

I don't have a USFA but I believe they are the same size as Uberti.

 

 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

7 hours ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

I have a pair of USFA Rodeo cylinders in 357.
They evidently were from a shipment sent to Doug Turnbull, that he never finished, so they were sold after USFA stopped making Rodeos.

They drop right into my 38 Rodeos & work perfectly fine.

--Dawg

That’s cool

[Red Rider Rudy]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I don't think I’ve ever seen an Uberti in .38 spl only.

Uberti made some for Taylors & Company. They were called Island Girl. My wife has a pair.

[Wade Butcher]

On 12/2/2022 at 12:55 PM, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

Have you tried to put a .357 magnum cartridge in the USFA?  Probably doesn't go in all the way.  Reason being that the chamber is reamed for 38 Special not .357 magnum.

Wow. You're right. The 357 Magnum cartridge doesn't go all the way in. The chamber length is fine, but the width is reamed a little too narrow.

 

Honestly, I feel like an idiot. I've always purchased the dual-cartridge 357/38 firearms (rifles and revolvers), so I always thought the two calibers went together ALL THE TIME. I never knew that they were two different diameters. I always read that the 357 Magnum was simply a 38 Special casing with a little added length to keep one from accidentally inserting the more powerful 357 Magnum cartridge into a 38 Special firearm (which may not handle the newer, more powerful load). To me, that would imply that the two diameters were exactly the same. Again...wow. I guess you really do learn something new every day. Thanks for the info!

 

WB

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

On 12/2/2022 at 5:12 PM, Griff said:

I certainly don't believe everything I read on the internet... but... one of the big advertising points USFA made was that their SA was the same as the original Colt, even to being able to interchange parts.   Don't confuse "chambering" to "proof testing".  USFA Rodeos were also produced in .357 Mag, .45 Colt, .38-40 & .44-40, as well as .32-20 IIRC.  While there are bigger framed Uberti single actions, these are fairly rare, & of earlier production.  None of the current models are larger framed then their Colt counterparts.  While Piettas, differ in size, they along with Uberti, must pass Italian Proof houses to be marketed by law as noted above.

 

Some folks prefer to have their revolver chambered in .38 Spl, rather than .38/.357 Mag if their only intent is to shoot .38 specials or to really have the most potential for accuracy.  The bullet jump between case and rifling leade being a factor in accuracy.  Probably much more important @ rifle distances vs. handgun.

I have never seen a Rodeo in 357

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

11 hours ago, Wade Butcher said:

I've always purchased the dual-cartridge 357/38 firearms (rifles and revolvers), so I always thought the two calibers went together ALL THE TIME. I never knew that they were two different diameters. I always read that the 357 Magnum was simply a 38 Special casing with a little added length to keep one from accidentally inserting the more powerful 357 Magnum cartridge into a 38 Special firearm (which may not handle the newer, more powerful load). To me, that would imply that the two diameters were exactly the same. 

These are straight wall cartridges so the only difference between the cartridges is the case length.  They are the same diameter.

 

The chamber throat is not cylindrical-it narrows slightly beyond the case mouth.  That’s why a .357 Magnum cannot be accidentally loaded into a .38 Special revolver.

 

 

[Wade Butcher]

Ah! Thanks for the explanation, Abe. And since I know we all love gunporn, here's a quick shot of the little beauty.

 

WB

[Ned Lander]

Nice pistol.  I wish that I had "pulled the trigger" and bought a set when they were available.  I hemmed and hawed too much, couldn't find the money and when I was ready, they were out of business.  I'd still like to find a set, but I'm not willing to pay the prices being asked for them on today's market.

 

[Wade Butcher]

Hmm... after learning the fun fact above that USFA made some revolvers in 357 Magnum (not just 38 Special, 45 Colt, etc.), I think I'm gonna trade up for an elusive 357 model. Hopefully, I won't lose too much money on the swap. LOL Oh, well. Live and learn, as they say.

 

Thanks for all the info, everyone!

 

Regards,

WB