Senior Classic Cowboy canceled for EOT

[hud]

Got word today that due to lack of shooters, Senior Classic Cowboy has been canceled and folded Into Classic Cowboy.  We only need 10 shooters, anybody wanna Jump in? 

[Major Art Tillery]

That sucks, best of luck finding enough.

[Nevada Gambler, SASS #10225]

Not the only one.  Senior Duelist also.

[hud]

9 minutes ago, Nevada Gambler, SASS #10225 said:

Not the only one.  Senior Duelist also.

That sucks, and seems a little EARLY too, don't it?

[Navy Davey]

Maybe start a new catgory Vintage Classic Cowboy 65+

[Rattlesnake Slim]

2 hours ago, hud said:

That sucks, and seems a little EARLY too, don't it?

 

The cutoff date for categories to reach their minimums - 10 for Open categories, 5 for Ladies - is November 1st as stated on the application. This is so that we have ample time to order trophies, name plates, and buckles for all filled categories. Sometime after Nov. 1st Sunshine Kay begins contacting those in underpopulated categories, giving them the opportunity to change to a category that has met its minimum. When that is done she sends confirmation emails or letters to those impacted. It is too late to recruit additional shooters to reach a minimum.

 

As of today, there are 54 categories that have met the minimum.

[hud]

Well,  I can understand that.  Kinda wish, maybe we could have been notified earlier. Maybe,  doubtfully,  but maybe we could have filled the 10. Thanks for the explanation 

[Hells Comin]

Bring a pillow to the Awards 

[Kid Rich]

My category was changed but I did not see any way to select another category.

kR

[Sixgun Seamus]

6 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

My category was changed but I did not see any way to select another category.

kR

I just responded to Sunshine Kay for my available options. She took care of it immediately.

[Marshal Fire, SASS 10064]

Silver Senior Frontier Cartridge also failed to meet the ten required and those signed up for it have been moved to senior frontier cartridge.

my email also stated that it was possible that Senior Frontier could be removed if shooters switched classes and the numbers reduced.

with the number of shooters at EOT it is understandable that orders for the awards need to be set and placed well in advance.

Is there a final cutoff date for the elimination of classes?

as a shooter I would like to know the firm status of my my class.

 

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

14 hours ago, hud said:

That sucks, and seems a little EARLY too, don't it?

Sorry for that Hud.  I was pulled down two levels in FCD but sort of expected it to happen, same happened at Nationals.  I just get to shoot against them "younger" guys.  

It will still be good to see and visit with you.  

[Two Dot, 14911]

A suggestion for next year, could we get a list of which categories are in danger of being eliminated a few weeks ahead of the deadline. We might be able to generate enough interest to fill some of them out.

[Shooting Bull]

16 hours ago, Nevada Gambler, SASS #10225 said:

Not the only one.  Senior Duelist also.

 

 

Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!! 

[Yellowstone Vic SASS#32968]

Signed up for Senior Duelist for the first time this year. 

 

Kat always says I’m “too immature”….guess she’s right. 

[boom pop]

MINIMUM ENTRANT CATEGORY MANDATES In the interest of ensuring and promoting a true competitive environment at the SASS Sanctioned Championship level of competition (State, Regional, National, and World Championships), all possible category breakdowns may be offered, however, categories above the base categories will only be honored if they meet the minimum entry mandates decreed by SASS and the Championship agreements. Ladies’ categories must have a minimum of three entrants and open categories must have a minimum of seven entrants in order to be honored at the SASS Championship level. Exceptions to the category mandate include Buckaroo/Buckarette, Junior, Elder Statesman/Grand Dame, Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness, El Patron/La Patrona, and El Rey/La Reina. If an offered category does not meet the minimum mandates, the entrant(s) will be entered into the next category down as the categories collapse toward the base categories until the minimum mandate is fulfilled. *Shooting categories offered at any match are ultimately at the discretion of the Match Officials to ensure the success and viability of each match individually.

[Too Tall Bob]

10 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

My category was changed but I did not see any way to select another category.

kR

They allow Outlaw just for your shenanigans?

[Rattlesnake Slim]

 

The requirements for State and above Championship matches have changed since the printing of the last Shooter's Handbook. Each club that holds a Championship match signs an individual contract with SASS. The new contracts have the new 10/5 minimums in them. The "discretion of Match Officials" goes away when a signed contract is in effect.

 

Thanks for understanding.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

I need more info from the contracts before commenting.  

[Dragon Hill Dave #59561]

Same thing happened to Elder Statesman Classic Cowboy. Now down to Silver Senior Classic Cowboy. But I don't mind. I was pretty shocked that they had ES Classic Cowboy at Nationals. Anything that recognizes us vintage classics works for me.

[mean gun mark]

14 hours ago, Too Tall Bob said:

They allow Outlaw just for your shenanigans?

They dont allow outlaw, ive tried repeatedly 

[Singin' Sue 71615]

On 11/29/2022 at 4:39 PM, boom pop said:

MINIMUM ENTRANT CATEGORY MANDATES In the interest of ensuring and promoting a true competitive environment at the SASS Sanctioned Championship level of competition (State, Regional, National, and World Championships), all possible category breakdowns may be offered, however, categories above the base categories will only be honored if they meet the minimum entry mandates decreed by SASS and the Championship agreements. Ladies’ categories must have a minimum of three entrants and open categories must have a minimum of seven entrants in order to be honored at the SASS Championship level. Exceptions to the category mandate include Buckaroo/Buckarette, Junior, Elder Statesman/Grand Dame, Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness, El Patron/La Patrona, and El Rey/La Reina. If an offered category does not meet the minimum mandates, the entrant(s) will be entered into the next category down as the categories collapse toward the base categories until the minimum mandate is fulfilled. *Shooting categories offered at any match are ultimately at the discretion of the Match Officials to ensure the success and viability of each match individually.

10 and 5...not sure when it changed.

[Texas Jack Black]

On 11/29/2022 at 8:19 PM, Rattlesnake Slim said:

 

The requirements for State and above Championship matches have changed since the printing of the last Shooter's Handbook. Each club that holds a Championship match signs an individual contract with SASS. The new contracts have the new 10/5 minimums in them. The "discretion of Match Officials" goes away when a signed contract is in effect.

 

Thanks for understanding.

 If this is new for 2023 I fear that it will harm attendance at smaller state venues. IMHO

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

34 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 If this is new for 2023 I fear that it will harm attendance at smaller state venues. IMHO

 

MINIMUM ENTRANT CATEGORY MANDATES In the interest of ensuring and promoting a true competitive environment at the SASS Sanctioned Championship level of competition (State, Regional, National, and World Championships), all possible category breakdowns may be offered, however, categories above the base categories will only be honored if they meet the minimum entry mandates decreed by SASS and the Championship agreements.  Ladies’ categories must have a minimum of three entrants and open categories must have a minimum of seven entrants in order to be honored at the SASS Championship level. Exceptions to the category mandate include Buckaroo/Buckarette, Junior, Elder Statesman/Grand Dame, Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness, El Patron/La Patrona, and El Rey/La Reina. If an offered category does not meet the minimum mandates, the entrant(s) will be entered into the next category down as the categories collapse toward the base categories until the minimum mandate is fulfilled. *Shooting categories offered at any match are ultimately at the discretion of the Match Officials to ensure the success and viability of each match individually.

 

 

My read on the document, (and if my interpretation is wrong I am sure Palewolf will be along to correct me! ) is that the only categories affected buy the minimum requirements are those "Optional" categories above the base categories, and for the record, there are 19 Open base categories (Male/Female) and 19 Female categories.  That is 38 possible categories that will ALWAYS be offered at a match.  At a smaller state match, say 50 folks, most of the categories have at most 2 or people in them.  Those categories are still awarded, as long as they are base categories.

 

As long as the Base categories are always offered, then EVERYONE will have a place to shoot their chosen style, and if there are enough folks that want to shoot that style, and there is a diverse enough spread of the ages, then they will get to partition that style into sub-categories.  And that is the point that people tend to forget, adding an age break to a category creates a "Sub-Category" not a new category.  Senior Duelist, Silver Senior Duelist, Elder Statesman Duelists, are all sub-categories of Duelist.  If there are not enough in the sub-category, then it get rolled into the base category and that is what the participation limits do.  They pull the "Optional" Sub-Categories down until there are enough folks to either meet the minimum, or they hit the base category.  I have seen matches where there were 5 Senior Duelists, and 1 Duelist and both categories were run at the match and awarded.  To me, that is just silly, there needs to be some limits somewhere.

 

Several years back I generated a chart to create a visual representation of all of the available categories within SASS.  I have been updating it every year when the new rule book comes out, the attached one is based on the Jan 2022 rule book.  If you take the time to do the math, there are 166 possible categories.  There can be specialty categories as well, Pale Rider, Outlaw, King of Kaboom, Sultan of Smoke, come to mind and I am sure there are others.

 

19 Open Base Categories

64 Open "Optional" Categories

19 Ladies Only Base Categories

64 Ladies Only "Optional" Categories

 

SASS Official Category Matrix 26_2.pdf

 

 

Personally, I have never been a big fan of extending the age breaks to the "Shooting Style" categories.  I have personally never shot in an age based category, I originally shot Traditional, then Frontier Cartridge, then FCD, and now FCGF.  I am old enough to shoot Silver Senior FCGF, but I still sign up for FCGF as I did at Land Run.  Although I would generally "Place" higher in the older group, at the end of the day, I'm going home in the vehicle I drove in with, assuming it starts after the match .

 

I understand why it was done, and at some of the larger matches there are certainly enough participants to justify doing so, but it can get out of hand quickly without some controls. 

 

That's my $0.02 and that won't even pay to wash the cup that your coffee was served in,

 

Dogmeat

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hells Comin]

You missed 2 classes there's 168 possible categories.

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

1 hour ago, Hells Comin said:

You missed 2 classes there's 168 possible categories.

Quite possibly, what did I miss?

[Hells Comin]

Left handed gunfighter and right handed gunfighter.

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

59 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

Left handed gunfighter and right handed gunfighter.

True, and I forgot the cross-eye dominant duelists too! 

[Cholla]

28 minutes ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

True, and I forgot the cross-eye dominant duelists too! 

Don't be messing with CEDD Category!!!

[Assassin]

With all the categories and an aging membership is anyone really surprised?

[Rye Miles #13621]

I’ll say this only once, there’s too many categories anyway! MHO 

[Hells Comin]

I say this only twice, it won't be long before the Award(s) ceremony(s) will be a 2 day event- Woman's one day and men's the next.   Rye Miles

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

I believe there will be a time that many a shooter, especially over 70, will  decide that with country as it is, high prices & theft explosion, spending $5K+ on a four day round trip to cowboy shoot is bad investment no matter how much fun you had.

IMO there are many that complain of to many categories but don't attend the major costly shoots, and never will.  Some perhaps very few monthly matches.

[Dantankerous]

6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I’ll say this only once, there’s too many categories anyway! MHO 

 

All we need is FCGF and other.

 

 

[Anvil Al #59168]

6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I’ll say this only once, there’s too many categories anyway! MHO 

 

 

Agree.

Just too many sub-categories.

Broken up in to close an age group. 

 

Sr should be 60-75.  SSr 75 and up. Done. No more.

 

Even then there may not be enough shooters in some.