hud Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Got word today that due to lack of shooters, Senior Classic Cowboy has been canceled and folded Into Classic Cowboy. We only need 10 shooters, anybody wanna Jump in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Art Tillery Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 That sucks, best of luck finding enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Gambler, SASS #10225 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Not the only one. Senior Duelist also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hud Posted November 29, 2022 Author Share Posted November 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, Nevada Gambler, SASS #10225 said: Not the only one. Senior Duelist also. That sucks, and seems a little EARLY too, don't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Davey Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Maybe start a new catgory Vintage Classic Cowboy 65+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 2 hours ago, hud said: That sucks, and seems a little EARLY too, don't it? The cutoff date for categories to reach their minimums - 10 for Open categories, 5 for Ladies - is November 1st as stated on the application. This is so that we have ample time to order trophies, name plates, and buckles for all filled categories. Sometime after Nov. 1st Sunshine Kay begins contacting those in underpopulated categories, giving them the opportunity to change to a category that has met its minimum. When that is done she sends confirmation emails or letters to those impacted. It is too late to recruit additional shooters to reach a minimum. As of today, there are 54 categories that have met the minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hud Posted November 29, 2022 Author Share Posted November 29, 2022 Well, I can understand that. Kinda wish, maybe we could have been notified earlier. Maybe, doubtfully, but maybe we could have filled the 10. Thanks for the explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Bring a pillow to the Awards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 My category was changed but I did not see any way to select another category. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Seamus Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 6 minutes ago, Kid Rich said: My category was changed but I did not see any way to select another category. kR I just responded to Sunshine Kay for my available options. She took care of it immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Fire, SASS 10064 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Silver Senior Frontier Cartridge also failed to meet the ten required and those signed up for it have been moved to senior frontier cartridge. my email also stated that it was possible that Senior Frontier could be removed if shooters switched classes and the numbers reduced. with the number of shooters at EOT it is understandable that orders for the awards need to be set and placed well in advance. Is there a final cutoff date for the elimination of classes? as a shooter I would like to know the firm status of my my class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 14 hours ago, hud said: That sucks, and seems a little EARLY too, don't it? Sorry for that Hud. I was pulled down two levels in FCD but sort of expected it to happen, same happened at Nationals. I just get to shoot against them "younger" guys. It will still be good to see and visit with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Dot, 14911 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 A suggestion for next year, could we get a list of which categories are in danger of being eliminated a few weeks ahead of the deadline. We might be able to generate enough interest to fill some of them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 16 hours ago, Nevada Gambler, SASS #10225 said: Not the only one. Senior Duelist also. Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowstone Vic SASS#32968 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Signed up for Senior Duelist for the first time this year. Kat always says I’m “too immature”….guess she’s right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom pop Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 MINIMUM ENTRANT CATEGORY MANDATES In the interest of ensuring and promoting a true competitive environment at the SASS Sanctioned Championship level of competition (State, Regional, National, and World Championships), all possible category breakdowns may be offered, however, categories above the base categories will only be honored if they meet the minimum entry mandates decreed by SASS and the Championship agreements. Ladies’ categories must have a minimum of three entrants and open categories must have a minimum of seven entrants in order to be honored at the SASS Championship level. Exceptions to the category mandate include Buckaroo/Buckarette, Junior, Elder Statesman/Grand Dame, Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness, El Patron/La Patrona, and El Rey/La Reina. If an offered category does not meet the minimum mandates, the entrant(s) will be entered into the next category down as the categories collapse toward the base categories until the minimum mandate is fulfilled. *Shooting categories offered at any match are ultimately at the discretion of the Match Officials to ensure the success and viability of each match individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Bob Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 10 hours ago, Kid Rich said: My category was changed but I did not see any way to select another category. kR They allow Outlaw just for your shenanigans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 The requirements for State and above Championship matches have changed since the printing of the last Shooter's Handbook. Each club that holds a Championship match signs an individual contract with SASS. The new contracts have the new 10/5 minimums in them. The "discretion of Match Officials" goes away when a signed contract is in effect. Thanks for understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 I need more info from the contracts before commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Hill Dave #59561 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Same thing happened to Elder Statesman Classic Cowboy. Now down to Silver Senior Classic Cowboy. But I don't mind. I was pretty shocked that they had ES Classic Cowboy at Nationals. Anything that recognizes us vintage classics works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mean gun mark Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 14 hours ago, Too Tall Bob said: They allow Outlaw just for your shenanigans? They dont allow outlaw, ive tried repeatedly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 On 11/29/2022 at 4:39 PM, boom pop said: MINIMUM ENTRANT CATEGORY MANDATES In the interest of ensuring and promoting a true competitive environment at the SASS Sanctioned Championship level of competition (State, Regional, National, and World Championships), all possible category breakdowns may be offered, however, categories above the base categories will only be honored if they meet the minimum entry mandates decreed by SASS and the Championship agreements. Ladies’ categories must have a minimum of three entrants and open categories must have a minimum of seven entrants in order to be honored at the SASS Championship level. Exceptions to the category mandate include Buckaroo/Buckarette, Junior, Elder Statesman/Grand Dame, Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness, El Patron/La Patrona, and El Rey/La Reina. If an offered category does not meet the minimum mandates, the entrant(s) will be entered into the next category down as the categories collapse toward the base categories until the minimum mandate is fulfilled. *Shooting categories offered at any match are ultimately at the discretion of the Match Officials to ensure the success and viability of each match individually. 10 and 5...not sure when it changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 On 11/29/2022 at 8:19 PM, Rattlesnake Slim said: The requirements for State and above Championship matches have changed since the printing of the last Shooter's Handbook. Each club that holds a Championship match signs an individual contract with SASS. The new contracts have the new 10/5 minimums in them. The "discretion of Match Officials" goes away when a signed contract is in effect. Thanks for understanding. If this is new for 2023 I fear that it will harm attendance at smaller state venues. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 34 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said: If this is new for 2023 I fear that it will harm attendance at smaller state venues. IMHO MINIMUM ENTRANT CATEGORY MANDATES In the interest of ensuring and promoting a true competitive environment at the SASS Sanctioned Championship level of competition (State, Regional, National, and World Championships), all possible category breakdowns may be offered, however, categories above the base categories will only be honored if they meet the minimum entry mandates decreed by SASS and the Championship agreements. Ladies’ categories must have a minimum of three entrants and open categories must have a minimum of seven entrants in order to be honored at the SASS Championship level. Exceptions to the category mandate include Buckaroo/Buckarette, Junior, Elder Statesman/Grand Dame, Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness, El Patron/La Patrona, and El Rey/La Reina. If an offered category does not meet the minimum mandates, the entrant(s) will be entered into the next category down as the categories collapse toward the base categories until the minimum mandate is fulfilled. *Shooting categories offered at any match are ultimately at the discretion of the Match Officials to ensure the success and viability of each match individually. My read on the document, (and if my interpretation is wrong I am sure Palewolf will be along to correct me! ) is that the only categories affected buy the minimum requirements are those "Optional" categories above the base categories, and for the record, there are 19 Open base categories (Male/Female) and 19 Female categories. That is 38 possible categories that will ALWAYS be offered at a match. At a smaller state match, say 50 folks, most of the categories have at most 2 or people in them. Those categories are still awarded, as long as they are base categories. As long as the Base categories are always offered, then EVERYONE will have a place to shoot their chosen style, and if there are enough folks that want to shoot that style, and there is a diverse enough spread of the ages, then they will get to partition that style into sub-categories. And that is the point that people tend to forget, adding an age break to a category creates a "Sub-Category" not a new category. Senior Duelist, Silver Senior Duelist, Elder Statesman Duelists, are all sub-categories of Duelist. If there are not enough in the sub-category, then it get rolled into the base category and that is what the participation limits do. They pull the "Optional" Sub-Categories down until there are enough folks to either meet the minimum, or they hit the base category. I have seen matches where there were 5 Senior Duelists, and 1 Duelist and both categories were run at the match and awarded. To me, that is just silly, there needs to be some limits somewhere. Several years back I generated a chart to create a visual representation of all of the available categories within SASS. I have been updating it every year when the new rule book comes out, the attached one is based on the Jan 2022 rule book. If you take the time to do the math, there are 166 possible categories. There can be specialty categories as well, Pale Rider, Outlaw, King of Kaboom, Sultan of Smoke, come to mind and I am sure there are others. 19 Open Base Categories 64 Open "Optional" Categories 19 Ladies Only Base Categories 64 Ladies Only "Optional" Categories SASS Official Category Matrix 26_2.pdf Personally, I have never been a big fan of extending the age breaks to the "Shooting Style" categories. I have personally never shot in an age based category, I originally shot Traditional, then Frontier Cartridge, then FCD, and now FCGF. I am old enough to shoot Silver Senior FCGF, but I still sign up for FCGF as I did at Land Run. Although I would generally "Place" higher in the older group, at the end of the day, I'm going home in the vehicle I drove in with, assuming it starts after the match . I understand why it was done, and at some of the larger matches there are certainly enough participants to justify doing so, but it can get out of hand quickly without some controls. That's my $0.02 and that won't even pay to wash the cup that your coffee was served in, Dogmeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 You missed 2 classes there's 168 possible categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Hells Comin said: You missed 2 classes there's 168 possible categories. Quite possibly, what did I miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Left handed gunfighter and right handed gunfighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 59 minutes ago, Hells Comin said: Left handed gunfighter and right handed gunfighter. True, and I forgot the cross-eye dominant duelists too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 28 minutes ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said: True, and I forgot the cross-eye dominant duelists too! Don't be messing with CEDD Category!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 With all the categories and an aging membership is anyone really surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I’ll say this only once, there’s too many categories anyway! MHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I say this only twice, it won't be long before the Award(s) ceremony(s) will be a 2 day event- Woman's one day and men's the next. Rye Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I believe there will be a time that many a shooter, especially over 70, will decide that with country as it is, high prices & theft explosion, spending $5K+ on a four day round trip to cowboy shoot is bad investment no matter how much fun you had. IMO there are many that complain of to many categories but don't attend the major costly shoots, and never will. Some perhaps very few monthly matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: I’ll say this only once, there’s too many categories anyway! MHO All we need is FCGF and other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: I’ll say this only once, there’s too many categories anyway! MHO Agree. Just too many sub-categories. Broken up in to close an age group. Sr should be 60-75. SSr 75 and up. Done. No more. Even then there may not be enough shooters in some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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