Will a Spencer?

[Dantankerous]

Spencer repros are available in 45 Colt.

 

Does anyone know of they will reliably cycle/load the shorter 45 Schofield?

 

Thanks.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Spencers used to be sold in 45 Schofield and 44 Russian, both discontinued.  So it can probably be done, but might be as reliable as 45 Colt.  And it still won't hold ten 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I know a couple of people that bought .44 Russians.  Neither worked.  The rounds are simply to short.

[Three Foot Johnson]

The short answer is no... conditionally. The breech block has to rotate up between cartridges, so there is very little leeway in cartridge overall length. If you could load .45 Schofield cartridges to 1.60", they'd work as well as .45 Colts.

[Diamond Curly SASS#57086]

I had one in 45 Colt and it did not load 45 Schofield so just shot 45 Colt. I did trade it for a Spencer Rifle in 45 Colt but do not shoot it for CAS, too heavy but fun to shoot. DC

[Sedalia Dave]

You might be able to make it work but then the rifle would only feed 45 Schofield, The way the action in a Spencer is designed it is highly sensitive to OAL. No one part determines what OAL a Spencer will reliably feed . It is a complicated relationship between the Upper Block, Cam, Cartridge Keeper Lever, and Extractor.

The cartridge on the breech block has to hold the next cartridge in the correct spot so that when the bolt is closed it can push this cartridge back into the magazine. Too short and the next cartridge is sticking too far out of the magazine and will get hung up on the bolt. Too long and the rim hangs up on the top of the magazine tube opening.. If you look at dummy rounds that have been cycled through a Spencer a few times you can see where the breech block is hitting the ogive of the bullet as it is pushing it back into the magazine. Tuning one is a real challenge as there is no way to see into this part of the action. In tuning mine I went through more than a few parts because I took off too much material.

 

Unlike a toggle link rifle you cannot put a large ramp on breech block to facilitate this. 

You can create a similar scenario if you removed the ramp on the front of the carrier of a 73. Without the ramp the carrier couldn't push the next round back into the magazine unless the OAL was just right. 

 

Another issue is cartridge extraction. The rim on a 56-50 case is about 3 times wider than either 45 Colt or 45 Scholfield. The significantly reduced rim contributed to any cartridge other than 56-50 having  less than reliable extraction. 

 

My experience with a properly tuned Spencer is that a change in the OAL of more than .010" either way from the sweet spot will start to  cause feeding issues.

 

Now for the rub. Switching from 45 Colt to 45 Scholfied isn't going to allow 10 rounds to be put into the magazine. At best you might get eight 45 Scholfields in a Spencer. There just isn't enough difference in the OAL of the cartridges.

 

[Seamus McGillicuddy]

I had a Chiappa Spencer carbine in .45 Colt and could never get it to run properly for more than a few rounds at a time. I believe it is just an inherent incompatibility between the Spencer action and this cartridge. Was finicky about chambering and even worse with extraction. I know some folks have had better luck than I did but I’ve also heard similar stories from others. 
 

Seamus

[Wallaby Damned]

I’ve got an original in 56-50 and have had a Uberti, both in 56-50. I found the original was a little more tolerant of OAL. The Uberti was finicky unless handled roughly. My understanding is that the non-original calibers in the reproductive are finicky feeders at best. I believe @Sedalia Davecovered everything well above. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, Wallaby Damned said:

I’ve got an original in 56-50 and have had a Uberti, both in 56-50. I found the original was a little more tolerant of OAL. The Uberti was finicky unless handled roughly. My understanding is that the non-original calibers in the reproductive are finicky feeders at best. I believe @Sedalia Davecovered everything well above. 

 

I too have an original, but not a reproduction.  I run cut down .50-70 brass from Buffalo Arms as I have read that the Starline 56-50 brass is sized for use in the reproductions and won't work right in originals.  Since you have both, what brass do you use, and does it work in both rifles?

 

 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, Wallaby Damned said:

I’ve got an original in 56-50 and have had a Uberti, both in 56-50...

Well, Armi-Sport/Chiappa, not Uberti.  But hey, at least they are both Italian. 

[Wallaby Damned]

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I too have an original, but not a reproduction.  I run cut down .50-70 brass from Buffalo Arms as I have read that the Starline 56-50 brass is sized for use in the reproductions and won't work right in originals.  Since you have both, what brass do you use, and does it work in both rifles?

 

 

I had to go out in the shop to have a look as it’s been awhile since I made any brass (50 rounds is more than plenty for my needs). I used starline. Haven’t had any issues but you really need to jack the lever like you mean it (not abusively if you catch my meaning) but the original will jam if you baby it. The Italian clone feeds pretty ok to my recollection. I only owned it long enough to get my original back in service.
 

Neither of them are fast shooters by any means. They’re faster than a Springfield muzzleloader, and maybe faster than a trapdoor (I have one of those too) but lack the power of the 45-70. Way slower than an 1860 Henry. if I had my druthers and we’re living in Montana in 1873, I’d be carrying an SAA artillery (or two) and a Henry. 

[Sedalia Dave]

5 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I too have an original, but not a reproduction.  I run cut down .50-70 brass from Buffalo Arms as I have read that the Starline 56-50 brass is sized for use in the reproductions and won't work right in originals.  Since you have both, what brass do you use, and does it work in both rifles?

 

 

 

In my reproductions I use Starline 56-50 brass. For originals the Starline 56-50 brass does not have a large enough rim to work reliably with the blade style extractor.

The rim diameter of cut down 50-70 Government brass is very close to that of the original rim fire cases and works well with the original blade extractor. It is however too large to work in the reproductions without reducing the diameter.

 

For bullets smaller than .515" in diameter RCBS dies work the best, They were designed to work with the reproductions. For bullets .515" in diameter or larger Lyman dies  work the best. The Lyman dies are cut down 50 Government dies and they will not properly crimp cases when the bullet is smaller than .515"