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Plainsman Rifle: Would a Martini Cadet Rifle Qualify?


Buckeye Pete, SASS # 29941

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I used to shoot plainsman and I had all the tools to do it.  Well, all those tools were "re-homed" so to speak.  I helped score a plainsman event at Bordertown this year and those folks had a heck of good time.  So, I'm looking at my safe to see what I have for a rifle to use.  I have an original trap door that was is a cut down rifle and that would be OK, but I also have a Martini Cadet rifle that was rechambered to .357 mag.  I've shot lots of .38 special in it and it is accurate.  Would the Cadet rifle qualify for plainsman if I loaded black powder cartridges?  What do you think?

 

Buckeye Pete

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Great seeing you at BT Pete.

 

Alas the Martini Cadet doesn't meet the "exposed hammer requirement" for SASS legal rifle.

 

Very cool gun though.

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 said:

Great seeing you at BT Pete.

 

Alas the Martini Cadet doesn't meet the "exposed hammer requirement" for SASS legal rifle.

 

Very cool gun though.

 

 

 

 

Earl, good seeing you as well.  Well I guess I'll bring the 'ol trap door out of the safe and get some practice.  Thanks for the response Earl!

 

Buckeye Pete

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The Martini Henry, in either the full sized or the smaller Cadet version, is not legal for SASS.   

 

But they should be!

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4 hours ago, Chantry said:

The Martini Henry, in either the full sized or the smaller Cadet version, is not legal for SASS.   

 

But they should be!

Why?  Were they commonly found on the plains of the Great American Desert?  Not an imported example or two, but "commonly", like any number of 19th century American single shot rifles were.

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1 hour ago, Griff said:

Why?  Were they commonly found on the plains of the Great American Desert?  Not an imported example or two, but "commonly", like any number of 19th century American single shot rifles were.

Handi rifles with 20” barrels and ejectors shooting 38sp were not very common either. (I do know that break-action rifles were around) 
personally, I think should be Rifle calibers only, and would like Martinis to be legal. 38-55 minimum caliber. 

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1 hour ago, Griff said:

Why?  Were they commonly found on the plains of the Great American Desert?  Not an imported example or two, but "commonly", like any number of 19th century American single shot rifles were.

 

The Martini-Henry in .577-450 was very popular for NRA long range shooting contests in the late 1800s. 

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4 hours ago, Griff said:

Why?  Were they commonly found on the plains of the Great American Desert?  Not an imported example or two, but "commonly", like any number of 19th century American single shot rifles were.

The Martini is correct to the period and just because we don't see it in American westerns doesn't mean it wasn't present

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3 hours ago, Chantry said:

The Martini is correct to the period and just because we don't see it in American westerns doesn't mean it wasn't present

A number of things are "correct for the period", yet they aren't allowed in SASS competitions.  I believe that we are celebrating the American cowboy and his era, with arms of American provenance.   As they were the most commonly seen.  Else, aren't we disrespecting the American frontier of the late 19th century?

 

 

 

 

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"Else, aren't we disrespecting the American frontier of the late 18th century?"

I think you mean the 19th Century.

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35 minutes ago, Cholla said:

"Else, aren't we disrespecting the American frontier of the late 18th century?"

I think you mean the 19th Century.

Aye, I did.

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11 hours ago, Griff said:

A number of things are "correct for the period", yet they aren't allowed in SASS competitions.  I believe that we are celebrating the American cowboy and his era, with arms of American provenance.   As they were the most commonly seen.  Else, aren't we disrespecting the American frontier of the late 19th century?

 

 

 

 

 Shrug, I just see it as a game and many of the period correct guns banned are due to them giving an unfair advantage of the existing single action revolver.

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12 hours ago, Griff said:

A number of things are "correct for the period", yet they aren't allowed in SASS competitions.  I believe that we are celebrating the American cowboy and his era, with arms of American provenance.   As they were the most commonly seen.  Else, aren't we disrespecting the American frontier of the late 19th century?

 

By that argument, such things as the Winchester Hotchkiss, Winchester 95, Revolver Carbines, US Krag rifle, certain Colt, S&W and other DA Revolvers, should all be legal, or at least have a "place" in our game, even if it is only in side matches.  (And yes, I think they do.)

 

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5 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

By that argument, such things as the Winchester Hotchkiss, Winchester 95, Revolver Carbines, US Krag rifle, certain Colt, S&W and other DA Revolvers, should all be legal, or at least have a "place" in our game, even if it is only in side matches.  (And yes, I think they do.)

If naught else, we'll have to agree to disagree.  It's call the "Single Action..." for a reason.  Let's not introduce a bunch of other crayola into it. The stereotypical cowboy/gunfighter handgun is the SA.  Whether others were historically present or not, is immaterial in this fantasy world.  

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2 hours ago, Griff said:

If naught else, we'll have to agree to disagree.  It's call the "Single Action..." for a reason.  Let's not introduce a bunch of other crayola into it. The stereotypical cowboy/gunfighter handgun is the SA.  Whether others were historically present or not, is immaterial in this fantasy world.  

 

Sigh...   I clearly say that the only place for these things might be side matches.   Side matches, by their very nature, can be open to all kinds of things and no effect the way the regular game itself, or even the way the "regular" side matches are conducted.   It would just be adding more stuff, not changing anything.

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12 hours ago, Griff said:

If naught else, we'll have to agree to disagree.  It's call the "Single Action..." for a reason.  Let's not introduce a bunch of other crayola into it. The stereotypical cowboy/gunfighter handgun is the SA.  Whether others were historically present or not, is immaterial in this fantasy world.  

 

Oh, that's one way of looking at it and I don't mean to dismiss you in disagreeing somewhat. I've been told (nearly endlessly) that it makes no difference at all if short-strokes were historically present -- clearly they weren't. Martini actions (Peabody, actually) probably were not common in the American west. At the same time they were common in the rest of the world in the period, and offer no real competitive advantage over any other single shot. The Borchardt actioned Sharps was rare in the Old West because it didn't sell well -- and it's also banned because of it's lack of hammer. The presence or absence of a given arm or feature in the actual old west is obviously not a consideration.

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