True Grit

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Just watched the second version and I gotta tell you......

 

 

 

......JEFF BRIDGES AIN'T ROOSTER COGBURN!

[Sam Sackett]

And that’s a good thing!

 

Sam Sackett 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

The way he says "Fill your hand you *** ** * *****" he might just as well have been saying "Your mother wears combat boots."

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

I think that the second flic was way better than the first, and  that goes for Bridges as Cogburn, too.

 

Basically, the book is the screenplay, and both movies follow it largely, but the changes made from the book in the first movie really water it down. Back then, apparently endings had to be happy, not sad or ambiguous as in the book. And the overall realism is much greater in the Coen Bros version. The best comparison between the two movies in that respect is probably the cabin scene.

 

The miscasting of Kim Darby as Mattie Ross in the first movie really weakened it.

 

I do think Wayne was very good as Cogburn, and it's one of his best acting jobs. He's the best thing about that version.

[Alpo]

When the man with an eye patch over his right eye puts his rifle to his right shoulder and stares over the sights with his eye patch, that movie just went to hell.

[Utah Bob #35998]

2 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Just watched the second version and I gotta tell you......

 

 

 

......JEFF BRIDGES AIN'T ROOSTER COGBURN!

True. But the movie had it’s merits. One being the film location. I thought Matt Damon was hideously miscast as well. 
People who never saw the original probably enjoyed it. I thought Haily Steinfeld was better than Kim Darby in the roll.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

The question of casting Damon is interesting. The role calls for a definite pomposity, which he conveyed, I thought. I thought he did well. The casting of Glen Campbell in the LeBouef role was almost weird, but he also got across the quality.

 

Tastes differ, obviously. To me, the first hardly holds a candle to the second. I think the only better casting in the first was Strother Martin. But the guy in that role in the second was still good.

 

And I just plain don't get the ending in the first movie. The sentimentality of the times, I suppose.

 

And I never saw the first movie until about 15 years ago, at 60. I never got into Westerns until I joined SASS in 2004, whereafter I became a huge Western fan. That might be part of it.

[Sawhorse Kid]

Both Wayne and Bridges had their points to the character.

The main thing I did not care for in Bridges performance was his mumbled speech pattern.

 

Kim Darby fit the bill as a high minded Pain in the A$$ perfectly ..... (otherwise, I did not care for her)

 

 

 

[Cholla]

I think it was great that they used a mobility-challenged horse in the second movie.

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

John Wayne was playing John Wayne as Rooster Cogburn. That is, to me, his persona looked a lot like many of the other characters he played to that point (1969). I give it a B- compared to his other roles. I felt that way in 1969. 
 

The Jeff Bridges movie with its cast and cinematography is, on the other hand, a faithful production of the book. The girl who played Mattie was up for the Oscar that year and think she should have won. 
 

There, I said it. Flame away… 
 

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

2 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

The question of casting Damon is interesting. The role calls for a definite pomposity, which he conveyed, I thought. I thought he did well. The casting of Glen Campbell in the LeBouef role was almost weird, but he also got across the quality.

 

Tastes differ, obviously. To me, the first hardly holds a candle to the second. I think the only better casting in the first was Strother Martin. But the guy in that role in the second was still good.

 

And I just plain don't get the ending in the first movie. The sentimentality of the times, I suppose.

 

And I never saw the first movie until about 15 years ago, at 60. I never got into Westerns until I joined SASS in 2004, whereafter I became a huge Western fan. That might be part of it.

Great googly mooglies you're old.

 

Just pointing out a fact there.  No other comment.  

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

57 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

John Wayne was playing John Wayne as Rooster Cogburn. That is, to me, his persona looked a lot like many of the other characters he played to that point (1969).

John Wayne being John Wayne is WHY most of us liked him so much.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

3 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

John Wayne being John Wayne is WHY most of us liked him so much.

Or didn’t.

[Dantankerous]

 Jeff Bridges knew he should not nor would not try to recreate John Wayne as Rooster Cogburn so he took a different approach and I think it worked very well. I thought the 2nd True Grit was a much more faithful reproduction of the book and very well told. The costuming was excellent, the language was colorful, and casting was near spot on, Damon included as he IS a pompous ass playing LeBouef's part.  The location of filming was also much more faithful to the original story as story as it took part in The Oklahoma Territory and not the beautiful Colorado Rocky Mountains as seen in 1969's movie.

 

 I watch both frequently and enjoy both for what they offer. I love John Wayne but Joel and Ethan Coen did an excellent job telling the story through their lens of the book's narration.

 

Mattie Ross's casting was definitely and infinitely better in the second with Haley Stienfeld doing a superb job while Kim Darby was mearly annoying and not likable. 

 

As mentioned, Strother Martin as the horse trader was brilliant and the 2nd movie's horse trader wasn't far behind but it'd be near impossible to play that better than Strother Martin.

 

As for casting the bad guys, Ned Pepper's gang and Tom Chaney, both movies were quite good but my vote goes for the second as Barry Pepper outdid himself as a dirty, leacherous but almost likable Ned Pepper. Tom Chaney in the second True Grit was also slimier, dirtier, scummier and way more detestable than in the first thanks to great acting by Josh Brolin.

 

 

 

[Doc Moses]

Both good flicks. Gotta agree the second was better. That is hard to say as a huge JW fan. The casting of ANYBODY else as Mattie almost guaranteed a better movie. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

3 hours ago, Doc Moses said:

Both good flicks. Gotta agree the second was better. That is hard to say as a huge JW fan. The casting of ANYBODY else as Mattie almost guaranteed a better movie. 

This ^^^^

[Warden Callaway]

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Ain't it great they make so many flavors of ice cream?  Something for everyone's taste.

[Bart Slade]

I'd say the new one is better balanced.

 

The '69 version has Wayne, Martin, and I'd add Duvall over the new film.   But it also has the biggest holes, particularly Darby and Campbell.

 

To me it really boils down to "are you a John Wayne fan".   If you aren't (or only casually), the 2010 version is the way to go.   

 

Me, I prefer the....well, I guess look at my avatar for your answer.

[Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:21 AM, Dantankerous said:

 Jeff Bridges knew he should not nor would not try to recreate John Wayne as Rooster Cogburn so he took a different approach and I think it worked very well. I thought the 2nd True Grit was a much more faithful reproduction of the book and very well told. The costuming was excellent, the language was colorful, and casting was near spot on, Damon included as he IS a pompous ass playing LeBouef's part.  The location of filming was also much more faithful to the original story as story as it took part in The Oklahoma Territory and not the beautiful Colorado Rocky Mountains as seen in 1969's movie.

 

 I watch both frequently and enjoy both for what they offer. I love John Wayne but Joel and Ethan Coen did an excellent job telling the story through their lens of the book's narration.

 

Mattie Ross's casting was definitely and infinitely better in the second with Haley Stienfeld doing a superb job while Kim Darby was mearly annoying and not likable. 

 

As mentioned, Strother Martin as the horse trader was brilliant and the 2nd movie's horse trader wasn't far behind but it'd be near impossible to play that better than Strother Martin.

 

As for casting the bad guys, Ned Pepper's gang and Tom Chaney, both movies were quite good but my vote goes for the second as Barry Pepper outdid himself as a dirty, leacherous but almost likable Ned Pepper. Tom Chaney in the second True Grit was also slimier, dirtier, scummier and way more detestable than in the first thanks to great acting by Josh Brolin.

 

 

 

This ^^^^

[Alpo]

I'm puzzled by the hate for Kim Darby. Yes, she is several years older than Maddie is supposed to be, but many actors and actresses play younger than they are.

 

I found her speech pattern quite annoying, and then I read the book, and that's the way she's supposed to talk.

[Equanimous Phil]

6 hours ago, Alpo said:

I read the book

I am not much of a reader, but now and then (every couple of years) I get me a new book. Can you - or anybody else who read it - recommend True Grit? Or are there better Western books out there? The only Western novel I've read so far is Thomas Willmann's "Das finstere Tal" (The Dark Valley) after I was impressed by the Austrian-German movie of the same title.

[Dantankerous]

58 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

I am not much of a reader, but now and then (every couple of years) I get me a new book. Can you - or anybody else who read it - recommend True Grit? Or are there better Western books out there? The only Western novel I've read so far is Thomas Willmann's "Das finstere Tal" (The Dark Valley) after I was impressed by the Austrian-German movie of the same title.

 

I surely recommend reading Charles Portis' True Grit. It's a quick read, only around 200 pages in paperback.

 

The book I'd definitely recommend reading is The Virginian by Owen Wister... one of the greats in Westerns.

 

[Equanimous Phil]

Thanks a lot! I will order have ordered both books.

[Pulp, SASS#28319]

I never understood why John Wayne had to steal the wagon from the folks at the creek.  Why not just ask?

 

I was never a fan of the music in the original, it was just too loud.  The soft background music in the remake was much better, IMHO.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Faster to steal the wagon than to negotiate with them.

 

I agree about the music.....and most music in almost all movies any more.

[Rip Snorter]

In respect to music, does anyone remember the TV release of Serpico?  There was so much bad language in the movie that the TV soundtrack was mostly music.

[Sixgun Sheridan]

On 11/5/2022 at 4:43 PM, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

The way he says "Fill your hand you *** ** * *****" he might just as well have been saying "Your mother wears combat boots."

 

I agree, that was the worst part about the second movie. Both Robert Duvall and John Wayne delivered their famous lines far better than Barry Pepper and Jeff Bridges did. With the latter two the delivery was so bad you immediately got shaken out of the moment and reminded that you were were just watching actors.

 

.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

10 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

I am not much of a reader, but now and then (every couple of years) I get me a new book. Can you - or anybody else who read it - recommend True Grit? Or are there better Western books out there? The only Western novel I've read so far is Thomas Willmann's "Das finstere Tal" (The Dark Valley) after I was impressed by the Austrian-German movie of the same title.

 

True Grit is a fine book indeed. If you've seen the second movie, it follows the book very closely. The book is almost the screenplay for the movie.

 

There a many good Western writers out there, but the very best in my opinion is Elmore Leonard. All of his Westerns are very good, and Valdez is Coming and Hombre are great. I rate Valdez is Coming as the best Western novel, period. Just my opinion, but I'm not alone.

[Equanimous Phil]

14 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

There a many good Western writers out there, but the very best in my opinion is Elmore Leonard. All of his Westerns are very good, and Valdez is Coming and Hombre are great. I rate Valdez is Coming as the best Western novel, period. Just my opinion, but I'm not alone.

 

Many thanks for these recommendations, they will definitely land on by book shelf!

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

On 11/5/2022 at 9:01 PM, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I thought Haily Steinfeld was better than Kim Darby in the roll.

Why she didn’t win the Oscar I’ll never know.

 

Every time I say it’s feel like I’m disrespecting John Wayne, but I thought the second version was much better. The script. The music.  The scenery. All first rate.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

On 11/10/2022 at 4:57 AM, Equanimous Phil said:

I am not much of a reader, but now and then (every couple of years) I get me a new book. Can you - or anybody else who read it - recommend True Grit? Or are there better Western books out there? The only Western novel I've read so far is Thomas Willmann's "Das finstere Tal" (The Dark Valley) after I was impressed by the Austrian-German movie of the same title.

Lonesome Dove, the book, is even better than the movie.  And I loved the movie. 

[Equanimous Phil]

51 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Lonesome Dove, the book, is even better than the movie.  And I loved the movie. 

Thanks! Another one for my WTB list  I haven't watched the movie yet, although I have it on Blu-Ray. I guess it needs a really rainy Sunday for a >6hr movie...

[Alpo]

Gone to Texas, which is the original title of Josey Wales, is pretty good. He did a sequel, The Vengeance Trail of Josey Wales. I think Amazon sells the two together as one book. Pretty sure they're where I got mine.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

I highly recommend reading the original book  by Charles Portis by the fire with a warm beverage.....time well spent on a cold evening.