Long Gun Preacher Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I am finding that my open top conversion (ASM Richards type 1) points much more naturally for me than my SAA's. For those who know far more than I do, (and thats all of you :)) What would you recommend as a second open top/conversion? I see so many different kinds and would definately appreciate a little schooling. I know I got very lucky with this ASM in that it shoots well...so if I dont want to tempt fate with another ASM... with thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Horse Hair, SASS #77464 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I recently purchased a Uberti Richard Mason type 2 brand new. Out of the box it would' dry fire 6 times in a row without hanging up. Put some rounds thru it and it got a little better, although the rims were hanging up on a tooling ledge left on the recoil shield. I have experience w/1860 cap guns, so I spent big part of a Sunday taking it apart and stoning/filing on various parts. It seems to run good now with a limited round count. I'm going to install Navy grip and replace the front sight with a wider brass piece I made from a coin.. I wouldn't buy a new one unless I was willing to do the work to make it run. For $600+ they should be better guns, at least up to the SAA models they build of which I have a pair (Smokewagons) that have been excellent guns. Just my experience with one gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Pat Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 i just bought a pair of 1872 open tops at the LA State Shoot last weekend. They have lowered hammer spurs and action jobs. They have 7.5” barrels and are natural pointers. They seem lighter than my Rugers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Pat Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I figured I would saw off the barrels. but they just handled so well and sights were dead on so I haven’t put a saw to them. Irish ☘️ Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 First and most important mod on my ubertis was to adjust the mandrel. I drilled and tapped the end then put in a 4-40 flat head screw. I adjusted fit by adding shims underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 What caliber do you want to shoot? I love my Open Top 72s in 38 Special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 The closest you going to come will be an 1871/72 Open Top which is not a conversion. Available from Cimarron and Taylors in various barrel length and caliber. I'd suggest 5 1/2 inch barrels, chambered 44 Special (shoot 44 Colt or Russian), with Navy Pattern Grips. Understand, out of the box, the Barrel to Arbor fit will be abysmal and need some attention and you will want to change out the Trigger/Bolt Spring and the Main Spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Skinner Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I had a pair of ASM 1860 conversions they were 38 Spl not 44s and had a 1851 grip not an 1860 grip. Are yours the same? If so you’d be better off with another open top in 38 Spl with an 1851 grip. They have a different feel than the larger Army grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 There are many Open Top models to choose from. What barrel style appeals to you? 51, 60, 72 Do you want to modify a black powder or use a model with a ready made frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Pat Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 mine are 38 also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I'll make some assumptions. First, that you like the Navy size grip, and second, that you want a pistol in .44 so you can shoot the same ammo in both. The '72 Opentop in .44 Special with Navy grip is the only currently manufactured gun that gives you that. If you want a gun that very closely matches the styling of yours, you could get a Type II conversion in .44 (which only comes with Army grip) and swap the Army grip for a Navy grip. That is what I did as I prefer Navy grips. Swapping the grip frame and grip was easy as there are folks out there who have Navy grips on theirs and would prefer Army. Now, an Uberti Navy grip and an ASM Navy grip might feel a bit different, but probably not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Gun Preacher Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 Thank you gentlemen. This helps a lot-Now i have a bunch of decisions to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Big Boston" Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I have a pair of first model open tops (71/72) in 45 S&W Schofield and although they do point nice, the small sights are not conducive to quick target acquisition. I have a '51 conversion coming in 38 Spl and I'll get to evaluate having the rear sight on the hammer. For me it's about looks, and the place in history my mind goes to. After all, imagination is part of this game. Rooster Cogbern and his pair of Navy sixes has always been an inspiration. In my experience the open tops, mine are Ubertis, do require a bit of work to make them smooth and reliable. Both mine have a very snug barrel to arbor fit, I've not bothered to shim them. In fact I removed the lock washers that the previous owner had placed in front of the arbor. Based on my experience, my advice would be to buy a conversion, not an '71/'72 open top. The original Colt open top was chambered in 44 Henry rimfire and when Uberti did the re-engineering they messed up a bit with the firing pin. The original Colt conversions were engineered for center and rim fire of various calibers and IMHO the design was easier to copy and harder to mess up. My pay grade isn't very high and it took me a bit of work and some parts to get the operation into the reliable zone. But to be honest I also had to undo some of the tweaks the previous owner had done. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, "Big Boston" said: ...Based on my experience, my advice would be to buy a conversion, not an '71/'72 open top. The original Colt open top was chambered in 44 Henry rimfire and when Uberti did the re-engineering they messed up a bit with the firing pin. The original Colt conversions were engineered for center and rim fire of various calibers and IMHO the design was easier to copy and harder to mess up. ... The firing pin on the Uberti Opentops was too long and pointy for the first few years. They would bend and/or pierce primers and folks would replace them with FP's from the Smith Shop. But Uberti changed those long ago and it is no longer a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Big Boston" Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: The firing pin on the Uberti Opentops was too long and pointy for the first few years. They would bend and/or pierce primers and folks would replace them with FP's from the Smith Shop. But Uberti changed those long ago and it is no longer a problem. I'm not sure of the version I have. My Sns are X07xxx. Too long and pointy wasn't the issue. Bent and chewed to krap from hitting the frame more the issue. Also fit in the hole, not aimed at the firing pin hole and too fat to fit in the hole. Absolute rubbish engineering and manufacturing. Mine are sequential sns but no where near matching. Might pass for being from different manufacturers. YMMV but I was extremely disappointed to say the least. Probably bought over $200 worth of parts to work on them. The rework required was way beyond my pay grade but I got them working. End shake and headspace are still out of spec but they work well enough now that I'm leaving them alone. The PO had filed the front sights, one almost to the quick and the other only half way there. I replaced the really low front sight, the other I can live with. The sight I replaced was loose and a few taps with a hammer and brass punch and it dropped out. The new one was a press fit so instead of silver solder I used red locker. They are not finely built, the throats are smallish and oblong by at least a thou or perhaps two. The scene is rolled on after the cylinders are machined and rolling on the scene distorts the chambers and throats a wee bit. The crown on the barrels was not centered and I had to recrown both the barrels as well. The timing issues were likely from the factory but the PO may have been in there. The trigger and hand needed replacement on one, and its frame needed a large chunk of burr removed. The factory had just narrowed the hand until it fit. The one has several hundred rounds through it, the other perhaps a 100 less. I'll get my use out of these, they are fun to shoot and I'll keep shooting them until they fall apart in my hands. I could add a few more items, but I think I've made my point. My experience is that the two I have were not good guns. The conversion I have coming is in 38 Spl, I'm hoping that the thicker cylinder walls will have been strong enough that the chambers and throats will not be distorted. At least I know that the PO did not fiddle with the guts. In addition Mason and Richards had worked out the firing pin position and angles more than a century ago. A small annoyance will be that the ejector on the conversions is not inline when in half cock, they need to be unloaded like a Vaquero or Blackhawk. BTW: the 11º crown I put on the barrels smartened up the accuracy significantly. I also really like the 45 S&W round, really appreciate it. So easy to load, and I use the same bullet as I do in my 1911 WB pistol. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I have 5 '51 R-M's and the ejector rods line up properly on 4 of them. Maybe you will get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I have both Open tops, in 45 S&W and 1860 Uberti Richards conversion in 45 S&W. My Open tops are about 10 year old and did need new firing pins. The conversions have not needed any work in the same 10 year span. All of them have Navy grips and at our distances the small sites have not been a problem. They all shoot POA so I just point the barrel down range and hit steel most of the time. When I do miss I just blame the small sites. I also shoot Ruger Old Armies and they are a lot lighter. I have five sets of Army and Navy C&B so I guess I am partial to these Colt reproductions. Shoot a Rogers & Spencer and you will love the Colt reproductions for sure in our game. I like my pair of R&S’s but tough to shoot in a CAS event. Shoot what you like and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I've been shooting these two open tops for almost 2 years now. Great guns! Mine wouldn't reseat the primers everytime when I first got them. Raised the power charge a bit and they are cured. Best pointing revolvers I own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Big B, Your Head Space and End Shake problems are based on the the Uberti Abysmal Barrel to Arbor fit. Take your pick, either the Arbor is too short or the bore in the barrel lug is too deep. Opine varies. First thing out of the box, for ANY Uberti built Open Top design, is to fix the Barrel to Arbor fit. Barrel should slide over the Arbor until it "bottoms" on something. The cheap and quick something is a #10 Split washer. Other fixes are more involved. Once the Barrel to Arbor fit is correct, the Wedge needs re-fit to the new dimensions. Then you can work on other stuff. I'll take the liberty of referring you to the tutorial from Larsen E. Pettifogger. You should find it VERY helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSlade Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 10/30/2022 at 6:49 PM, No Horse Hair, SASS #77464 said: I recently purchased a Uberti Richard Mason type 2. I'm going to install Navy grip and . I will trade you one of my navy grip sets for your army grip set!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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