Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 https://www.thefencepost.com/news/18-head-of-600-pound-calves-dead-after-apparent-wolf-attack-near-meeker/ As long as they don't bother the scone eaters in Denver or Boulder they are the favored child. And we haven't even begun our wolf reintroduction! My wife went to school with Lenny's brother. The entire Klinglesmith family has been at the forefront of coexistence and conservation as long as I can remember. Lenny volunteered many hours of time to help come up with cooperative agreements on how to live with the wolves when they are reintroduced. Sad Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Time to take reality into the equation and decide if you want cattle or wolves..... and seriously evaluate the danger to people factor. In southern California, in a fairly urban area about 35 miles east of LA, two women were killed by cougars a week or so apart and one of them was partially eaten, all about ten short years ago. A pack of wolves in a rural area could do a lot more damage. Imagine them hitting a bus stop or playground or a park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 The major damage is not the animals they kill, but the extreme reduction in fertility in the breeding herd due to stress. A lifelong rancher friend says that a small pack of wolves would put him out of business in short order. Remember, we had effectively eliminated wolves in the U.S. These are mostly the offspring of Greeniac introduced Canadian wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 I'm not even a rancher, but this "co-existence" concept sounds nuts to me. They talk like they got the wolves to sign an agreement not to kill cattle, and now that they have, the ranchers are surprised and want compensation. Or is it just an effort to try to get the state to pay for any and all losses that can be attributed to wolves? Sort of a "well, you guys voted for it, so now pay for it"? Short memory among folks who live in that area - there was a reason that wolves were hunted to near extinction - and no feel-good program will ever eliminate the danger. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 I fear that as larger predators and scavengers become more acclimatized to humans and being around them for food scraps etc. they will lose all natural fear of humans and act more like European and Russian wolves. A former Alberta Premier had this advice: Shoot Shovel Shut-Up Timber wolves were re-introduced in an area near here. After a number of sheep and calf attacks, they were dealt with, in a summary fashion, by farmers in the area. The head of one was wired to the door of the Ministry of Natural Resources office with the "Suggestion" not to bring them in again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 In Mi they just use our tax dollars to pay off the farmers. If they get bad enough they hire hunters to kill the offenders. When people would pay handsomely to hunt them. We are way above our population goal and have only ever had one wolf season. It’s nutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 29 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said: A former Alberta Premier had this advice: Shoot Shovel Shut-Up This was the policy taken by my friend's Dad who live out in the wilds of the Alaskan peninsula. For him, it was a bear and not a wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said: I'm not even a rancher, but this "co-existence" concept sounds nuts to me. They talk like they got the wolves to sign an agreement not to kill cattle, and now that they have, the ranchers are surprised and want compensation. Or is it just an effort to try to get the state to pay for any and all losses that can be attributed to wolves? Sort of a "well, you guys voted for it, so now pay for it"? Short memory among folks who live in that area - there was a reason that wolves were hunted to near extinction - and no feel-good program will ever eliminate the danger. LL A lot more complex than this ^^^^ Compensation for predator loss has been a part of ranching (and to a lesser degree farming) as long as Colorado has been a state. Bluntly a rancher lives on a shoestring of profit and the loss of very few of his livestock can mean the difference between getting an operating loan next year and going under. Surprised ranchers? Not a chance. Several videos of migratory wolves killing dogs and livestock were provided to DPW in the Dinosaur area long before this junk legislation was even a thought. Those who live there knew the truth but were shouted down. As far as who pays for it well, none, let me repeat NONE of the counties where the wolf reintroduction is planned supported the idea or voted for it. Legislation was approved by vote of primarily Denver and Boulder county, (Front Range eastern slope) which coincidentally have zero plans on introducing wolves into their regions. You want to support it, fine, that includes financing things. Short memory? Again none, nada, zero, zip of the people directly affected voted for this, was foisted on them by a bunch of feel good pot smoking green folks who never lived on a ranch or actually had to live in the country. Regards Gateway Kid BTW Ranching has been "co-existing" with the land since before Colorado was even a state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 I always thought wolves in a few urban blue area parks might just be an attitude adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 For me it's 100's of million of cattle for a few wolves. Seems fair. No one every mentions they keep the deer, elk etc population in check which by the way the ranchers claim eat all of their grazing for their cattle. Wolf eats a deer, no one cares. Wolf eats a calf and the sky is falling. State should just say any livestock killed by a wolf the owner gets $X. Wolves are happy, rancher doesn't go broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: For me it's 100's of million of cattle for a few wolves. Seems fair. No one every mentions they keep the deer, elk etc population in check which by the way the ranchers claim eat all of their grazing for their cattle. Wolf eats a deer, one cares. Wolf eats a calf and the sky is falling. State should just say any livestock killed by a wolf the owner gets $X. Wolves are happy, rancher doesn't go broke. Wrongo - the presence of a wolf pack reduces fertility of the herd, The rancher looses in every case. If it goes as far as the greenies want, your steak won't exist. Tofu all around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 23 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said: A lot more complex than this ^^^^ Compensation for predator loss has been a part of ranching (and to a lesser degree farming) as long as Colorado has been a state. Bluntly a rancher lives on a shoestring of profit and the loss of very few of his livestock can mean the difference between getting an operating loan next year and going under. Surprised ranchers? Not a chance. Several videos of migratory wolves killing dogs and livestock were provided to DPW in the Dinosaur area long before this junk legislation was even a thought. Those who live there knew the truth but were shouted down. As far as who pays for it well, none, let me repeat NONE of the counties where the wolf reintroduction is planned supported the idea or voted for it. Legislation was approved by vote of primarily Denver and Boulder county, (Front Range eastern slope) which coincidentally have zero plans on introducing wolves into their regions. You want to support it, fine, that includes financing things. Short memory? Again none, nada, zero, zip of the people directly affected voted for this, was foisted on them by a bunch of feel good pot smoking green folks who never lived on a ranch or actually had to live in the country. Regards Gateway Kid BTW Ranching has been "co-existing" with the land since before Colorado was even a state. When we start reintroducing them, the first place to start should be the parks in Denver & Boulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: For me it's 100's of million of cattle for a few wolves. Seems fair. No one every mentions they keep the deer, elk etc population in check which by the way the ranchers claim eat all of their grazing for their cattle. Wolf eats a deer, one cares. Wolf eats a calf and the sky is falling. State should just say any livestock killed by a wolf the owner gets $X. Wolves are happy, rancher doesn't go broke. You're a leftist hippy ain't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 53 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: For me it's 100's of million of cattle for a few wolves. Seems fair. No one every mentions they keep the deer, elk etc population in check which by the way the ranchers claim eat all of their grazing for their cattle. Wolf eats a deer, one cares. Wolf eats a calf and the sky is falling. State should just say any livestock killed by a wolf the owner gets $X. Wolves are happy, rancher doesn't go broke. NIH estimates 31.7 million cattle spread amongst all 50 states. While it certainly varies by area here where I live elk at one time were pretty rare. Same where my wife grew up. Ranchers dug ponds to store runoff water for the cows, planted grasses in previously non productive areas as unharvested forage, built roads at their own expense which are now used by many including hunters, government agencies for many purposes including fire suppression, tourists and campers looking to get away from it all. Unfortunately some seem to think ranchers are getting a free ride which is utter BS. Let’s try this…. According to business insider this morning commodities price is 1.45 live, which means a 600 pound calf is worth $870 or put another way those 16 the wolves killed were worth $13,920. Take your income and deduct that and let me know how that feels. AND that is delivered price to the stockyards (Oklahoma) so figure some more expenses on top of that. Ranching is a fulfilling career but for most not particularly lucrative. Hope your day goes well Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 If you didn't grow up in a ranching area, until Ranchers are personal friends, you cannot believe how tough these folks are and how hard they work, and that at all hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Pat Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Denver Post reports some livestock apparently killed by wolves. But these may not be ones reintroduced, but a small pack that drifted down from Wyoming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said: You're a leftist hippy ain't you? Nope, far right. I just push back on killing animals for no reason other than it impacts cattle. Same discussion about feral horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said: NIH estimates 31.7 million cattle spread amongst all 50 states I'm adding in the world and dairy cows. Maybe the supply of cattle far exceeds demand. Fewer cattle available may cause the market price to go up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: Nope, far right. I just push back on killing animals for no reason other than it impacts cattle. Same discussion about feral horses. Wonderful, but not your livelihood nor in your neighborhood. Wolf control is critical to the beef portion of the food supply. Easy for you to say. Hey, you could volunteer to give wolves birth control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 22 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: I'm adding in the world and dairy cows. Maybe the supply of cattle far exceeds demand. Fewer cattle available may cause the market price to go up? Didn’t know the world was planning on wolf reintroduction. Thought we were talking specifically this event. Thanks for the update Gateway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 I'm having trouble figuring out what the 400 lb alligator has to do with this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said: Wonderful, but not your livelihood nor in your neighborhood. Wolf control is critical to the beef portion of the food supply. Easy for you to say. Hey, you could volunteer to give wolves birth control. The wolves aren't trying to mate with the cattle, they are retying to kill and eat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said: The wolves aren't trying to mate with the cattle, they are retying to kill and eat them. One of the constant themes of bunny huggers is to deliver birth control to any problem species instead of culling them. You missed the turn, IMO. I was suggesting an interesting method for the gent to walk the walk of his apparent POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Pat Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 I could the not get the message to send. while we don’t have wolves we are up to our necks Gators in Louisiana. Irish ☘️ Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Wyatt Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 There is no coexistence with wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, Irish-Pat said: I could the not get the message to send. while we don’t have wolves we are up to our necks Gators in Louisiana. Irish ☘️ Pat No one put the dam Gators there again after they were exterminated! Hand to mouth Rancher / Farmer Settlers out here, paid professional hunters to exterminate Wolves. Greeniacs put back more robust Canadian wolves where I live. How about some Piranhas introduced where you live to supplement the Gators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 I see you Are beginning to enjoy the Wolves that your greenies talked you into getting from Canada ... Our sportsmen tried to talk you out of getting them ( Not real Hard I'm sad to say ) but we did try and warn you... The alpha Male in the pack usually weighs in over the 160 pounds with some exceeding 200 pounds, they are Not prone to staying were you want them to... They are equipped with the tools to slash and Kill livestock as well as deer and the like... I watched a small pack pull down and cripple a Cow moose after that they killed her calf and ate most of her with the mother moose watching but unable to intervene ... Being un-armed at the time, I slipped away and came back the next morning, armed with my Marlin 336 in .444... I dropped the first 2 before they could react, shot two more as the started to run , number 5 was almost of of sight before I shot her, reloading as I moved toward her to finish her off. I then finished off the Cow Moose that was still alive. Then I backed off about 60 yards in my snow camo and sat with my back to a large spruce tree... Sure enough the three remaining pack members came sneaking back less than 2 hours later, I managed to kill two and drew blood on the last one. I was unable to catch up with the last pack member... I then rough skinned four, then walked back and got my Yamaha Bravo Snow mobile with sled tying the four skinned wolf hides onto the rack and back seat putting the remaining 3 in the sled ( these were the smaller ones) good thing there were next to no hills to climb on the way back to my truck... By the Way you are welcome to the Wolves we gave you... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 I lost 98 head of sheep when wolves were reintroduced in SE Idaho. Wolves kill everything when they9 teach their pups I got my wolf license when they were made legal In Idaho. Wolf lovers are anti gun, climate change city people. I will.get their tag when they are made available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Hey, Rip, how about we take up a collection and fly some of those mega-hive dwellers to where the wolves are and give each one bag of meat and a comb and tell them to go feed and groom the wolves. Get some drones so we can get videos of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said: I lost 98 head of sheep when wolves were reintroduced in SE Idaho. Wolves kill everything when they9 teach their pups I got my wolf license when they were made legal In Idaho. Wolf lovers are anti gun, climate change city people. I will.get their tag when they are made available. They're going to issue tags for wolf lovers? LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 16 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said: Denver Post reports some livestock apparently killed by wolves. But these may not be ones reintroduced, but a small pack that drifted down from Wyoming! Don't make any difference where they came from, the cows are still dead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORNERY OAF Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 I have a new m1 garand, I imagine that would be very good wolf medicine if I lived in a wolf area. Here we have mangy coyotes and maybe some larger coy dogs...some farmers here put llamas in with the herds.....apparently a Llama will beat the ass out of a coyote. Wolves might be to big for Llama badassery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 16 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: I'm adding in the world and dairy cows. Maybe the supply of cattle far exceeds demand. Fewer cattle available may cause the market price to go up? Yeah, that solves everything to create peace, harmony and mutual understanding between predator and prey: Higher beef prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 55 minutes ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said: Don't make any difference where they came from, the cows are still dead! Actually it could make a difference. The reintroduction plan, as written, becomes sharply curtailed if even one resident breeding pack is found in Colorado. DPW (dept of parks and wildlife, formerly game and fish) is currently investigating several reports of migratory packs, possibly from other reintroduction sites, that have moved into northwest Colorado and produced pups. Already the wolf lovers, who wrote the legislation in the first place, are starting to grumble that a single pup shouldn’t derail “their” reintroduction plan and are looking to amend the legislation. Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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