Cholla Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 I bought an original Winchester 1886 in .40-82 with the plan to shoot it in long range matches at Bordertown. Unfortunately, there is only a hint of rifling left so the bullets tumble and my "group" is 24" x 24" at 50 yards. I initially though it might be enough rifling to work and have experimented for months with different bullets sized to different diameters. I am now at the point the bullets are large enough that the cartridge won't chamber. I took it to my local gunsmith, who comes highly recommended by the local gun shops. I asked if he could increase the chamber but he inspected the bore and stated no amount of work would get the barrel to shoot properly, He recommended re-boring the original barrel to .45-70. That would keep the original finish intact but the gun would no longer match the factory letter. I prefer it match. Another gunsmith suggested that he could re-line it and keep it .40-82. But, the liner is .408 and 1 in 24 twist and all my molds are .403 that I have beagled to .406. to match the stated size so that would mean new custom molds. The original twist is 1 in 28 so I am curious how well 1 in 24 would work. I could buy a new, properly marked, replacement barrel from Winchesterbarrels.com in .40-82 and they will finish the barrel with a browned patina that will be close to what I have, but the gun would not be original. I could sell the rifle and hope to get my money back and just start over. A local shop has an original for $3800 in great shape, but that's a whole lotta rattlesnake hat bands and belt buckles to pay it off. What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Check out Track of the Wolf. The sell a 40-82 barrel liner. P/N LINER-40-CFA. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/item.aspx/637/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 You can rent a chamber reamer here. https://4drentals.com/product/40-82-winchester/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 2, 2022 Author Share Posted October 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: Check out Track of the Wolf. The sell a 40-82 barrel liner. P/N LINER-40-CFA. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/item.aspx/637/1 I spoke with TJ's Liners, the supplier to TOTW. He said the 1 in 16 twist offered on TOTW is for jackets bullets. He said lead bullets would strip lead at that twist rate. The reamer size is .432. With a .406 bullet and case it comes to a chamber of .430. With a .408 bullet the loaded cartridge would be the same size as the chamber. I don't know how well that would work with variances in brass and bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Henry #7046 Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 The Browning BPCR 40-65 model came from the factory with 1/16. I've been shooting BPCR silhouette using lead bullets for years without my bullets striping. My son has the same rifle and his lead bullets do not strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Well.......... Here's my 4 pennies.... Like they say, original is "original". Then there's original with a replacement original barrel, is that still original? Then there's original but.... relined, not original enough for some to still be called original? All that said, if you like the gun .... (I think it's very cool)... The new, barrel with the right markings finished to match the gun should make you one great shooting, fun rifle. That might be the fastest & might be a way to keep the caliber figuring they are using the original twist? Then again, if their barrels have the original twist you would think they must be getting them from somewhere that would be able to make you a liner with that twist? One would think someone, somewhere would make a liner with the correct twist. I am not experienced with liners but it would be nice if you could "just" reline it. Then your finish would not change (unless something in the process would require it?) Having nice new rifling should make for happy shooting. The better the grouping the more fun you should have with it more often. I have an 1886 Winchester rifle in 40-82 that is a "project" that I hope to get together to shoot. Best of luck with your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 I see no reason Not to reline the barrel, it can be done in such a way so as to be almost invisible ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 This table leads me to believe a 1 in 16 would work. My bullets are 240-260 grains and .8" long. Am I looking at this right? This is a lot of money to spend to get it wrong. https://www.montanabulletworks.com/resources/twist-tables/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Try this calculator https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ I did some seat of the pants calculations. Assuming a 260 grain bullet about .8 inches long with a BC as low as .150 and as high as .350 a 1:16 twist will wobe stable. As one of your gunsmiths pointed out there is a possibility that a cast lead bullet will have issues with that fast a twist rate. You may have to switch to a harder lead alloy to ensure the bullets engage the rifling correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: Try this calculator https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ I did some seat of the pants calculations. Assuming a 260 grain bullet about .8 inches long with a BC as low as .150 and as high as .350 a 1:16 twist will wobe stable. As one of your gunsmiths pointed out there is a possibility that a cast lead bullet will have issues with that fast a twist rate. You may have to switch to a harder lead alloy to ensure the bullets engage the rifling correctly. I did read that the original .40-82 wasn't very accurate. Maybe the twist was too slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Quite possibly, A bullet with a BC of .2, and an bullet length of 1", and a barrel twist of 16 would be stable. However if you change the twist rate to 26 you end up with a marginally stable bullet. All other factors being equal, it seems that bullet length affects the stability bore that any other parameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: seems that bullet length affects the stability bmore that any other parameter. Bullet length and weight have about same effect - since same nose shape means as length increases, weight also increases. And many folks find it easier to remember the weight than the length of slugs. I learned that lesson with cast bullets in 6.5mm Swedish Mausers. They were made back in 1896 to 1938 or so with a FAST twist rate to stabilize long-for-caliber bullets - like the 140-150 grain slugs. That works for jacketed at full speed (2500 FPS or so). But for cast bullets, if you don't keep the muzzle velocity down to about 1600 FPS, the same weight bullet wobbles out of control and won't be stable. A real expensive way to think about - buy a new barrel with rifling of your choice, turn it down starting a couple inches forward of chamber to make your own liner, bore out the old barrel and insert the new liner with rear of barrel / chamber intact. But since you are not TOO far from Nebraska, I'd give Lonnie at Run-N-Irons a call and see how he would suggest approaching the job. Randall Redman too - he makes liners, just none in .406" groove diameter. He'd give good advice, I would guess. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 I would contact Turnbull 's Restorations just to find out what the world-recognized experts would say. Having visited their shop and handled some of their work, the saying 'you get what you pay for' comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 There is a thread over on the CAS City Wire under "Topic: 40/60 whats wrong???? " where a shooter relined an 1876 Win in 40-60 Win with a 22" barrel with a 1:22 liner. https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=53381.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 On 10/2/2022 at 9:13 AM, Cholla said: I could buy a new, properly marked, replacement barrel from Winchesterbarrels.com in .40-82 and they will finish the barrel with a browned patina that will be close to what I have, but the gun would not be original. This is your best solution, in my opinion. Is George Washington's hatchet not his because it has had the handle replaced 3 times and the blade replaced once? You can keep the original barrel with the rifle and put it back on any time you want to retire it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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