Thoughts On The Pipeline

[Subdeacon Joe]

Never attribute to malice what stupidity and/or vodka can explain.

 

Found on FB

 

Posted by a friend:

However, in this case involving a natural gas pipeline under the pressure of 300 to 360 feet (8.85 atmospheres to 10.6 atm.) of water, I'd like you to turn your eyes towards a fun little quirk of nature called "methane hydrates".
Well, actually, I'd like you to meditate upon "hydrate plug", but give me a moment.
Under certain circumstances of pressure, temperature, and water presence natural gas/methane will form solid hydrates, will concomitant amounts of fun.
For the Chinese definition of fun, anyway.
Keeping hydrates from forming is a constant battle, requiring vigilance, expertise, diligence, and constant water removal. If any of these things slack at any time -- you're getting hydrate formation.
The presence of solid hydrates in a pipeline can cause flow issues (causing cracks), destabilize the pipe itself (more cracks), and cause fires (bad. Very Bad), but the big issue (pun intended) is when you form enough hydrates that it blocks the pipe entirely (see: Hydrate plug, above).
A hydrate plug is one massive pain in the ass to remove, and removal of said hydrate plugs is not a task to be undertaken by idiots, rank amateurs, morons, the terminally unlucky, or stupid people.
The Recommended Best Practice to clear a hydrate plug is a vvveeerryyy slllooowww depressurisation from BOTH ENDS, SIMULTANEOUSLY.
As the line reaches one standard atmosphere, heat is transferred to the plug from the environment, and the plug begins to melt, starting at the plug/wall interface.
However, if you are a national gas company with institutional paranoia, a Nationalised aversion to looking weak or asking for help, and a Good Idea Fairy fueled by vodka -- well, you can depressurise the pipe from one end.
The hydrate plug will still melt at the plug/wall junction, but when it does, the pressurised side will launch the plug (five feet in diametre, and the same density as water ice) at almost 200 miles an hour down the pipe towards the depressurised side.
When this plug bullet hits a bend in the pipe -- well, it doesn't stop, nor does it change direction easily. It's going to make a hole.
What's even more fun is when somebody figures out what's happening and slams the valves closed ahead of that fast-moving plug. It's called the Diesel Effect, and it's basically a large amount of lovely, flammable natural gas is suddenly compressed well above the ignition point between a fast-moving chunk of hydrate and a closed valve.
Boom. Big bada-boom.
Another fun thing that occurs to usually-intelligent people is to "gently warm the area of pipe where the plug is".
Don't do this. Methane hydrates disassociate really, really rapidly in the presence of heat. A pocket of gas will form somewhere inside the plug, next to the pipe wall, and the massive, localised pressure increase will rupture the pipe, spilling vapourised natural gas all over your heat source. (See "Bada-boom, above.) 
Finally, for some reason, bureaucrats, politicians, amateurs, the alcohol-inspired, and idiots (but I repeat myself) always want to "Just blow that fucking plug out of the pipe".
Don't do this. Ever. Just ... don't.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Sounds remotely like fatburgs that I read about the other day. Fatburgs are plugs that occur in sewer pipes when people dump fats and oils down the drain.

[Buckshot Bear]

23 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Sounds remotely like fatburgs that I read about the other day. Fatburgs are plugs that occur in sewer pipes when people dump fats and oils down the drain.

 

Combined with sanitary items that shouldn't be flushed....they can become impressive in size.

[Texas Joker]

Seems like if you shut off an underwater pipe and it compresses then when you start it up again joints or holes that were plugged got pushed outta shape by the water weight and now leak

[Utah Bob #35998]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/29/politics/pipeline-leaks-russia-suspicion-analysis

[Sedalia Dave]

Interesting hypothesis. 

 

I suspect that once someone gets an ROV with a camera down to inspect the pipe it will be obvious if the damage was caused by an internal or external force.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

I have some questions about the gas pipes explosions.  I admit I do not know the answers to these questions below.

 

1.  Why would Russia want to deliberately sabotage their own pipes?

          - They had already cut off gas flow from their end.

          - Maybe to show that they can destroy underwater pipes...  I don't know.  I suspect everybody already knew that Russia was capable of underwater destruction.

 

2.  I understand the 2 or 3 explosions took place close together.  That looks like a deliberate act doesn't it?

 

3.  Who besides Russia would have a motive to blow the pipes and what would that motive be?

 

 

.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Coulda been some evil no-goodnik dragging an anchor....  

 

Twice....

 

Seventy-five miles apart....    

[Chantry]

The only country that might benefit from intentionally damaging/destroying the Nord pipelines would be China and I'm not sure that the Chinese are capable of carrying out such an operation or that China would risk angering so many countries that they do business with.

 

The U.S., Europe and Ukraine don't benefit, since Putin would consider it an escalation.

Russia wouldn't do it because it's both an escalation on their part and they don't benefit from it either.

 

[Oak Ridge Regulator]

I’m going to go with the vodka/stupidity, we rupture gas and oil lines here in the US every year and we’re Not in the middle of a war, I wouldn’t be the least surprised to find the guys who used to run the system got shipped off to war and the guys running it now really don’t have much of a clue, I’m surprised it’s taken this long for something to happen

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

From the little I have read or heard, I think it's likely Subdeacon Joe's posting, will turn out to be the answer.

[Subdeacon Joe]

[Utah Bob #35998]

On 9/29/2022 at 3:48 PM, Subdeacon Joe said:

Never attribute to malice what stupidity and/or vodka can explain.

 

Found on FB

 

Posted by a friend:

However, in this case involving a natural gas pipeline under the pressure of 300 to 360 feet (8.85 atmospheres to 10.6 atm.) of water, I'd like you to turn your eyes towards a fun little quirk of nature called "methane hydrates".
Well, actually, I'd like you to meditate upon "hydrate plug", but give me a moment.
Under certain circumstances of pressure, temperature, and water presence natural gas/methane will form solid hydrates, will concomitant amounts of fun.
For the Chinese definition of fun, anyway.
Keeping hydrates from forming is a constant battle, requiring vigilance, expertise, diligence, and constant water removal. If any of these things slack at any time -- you're getting hydrate formation.
The presence of solid hydrates in a pipeline can cause flow issues (causing cracks), destabilize the pipe itself (more cracks), and cause fires (bad. Very Bad), but the big issue (pun intended) is when you form enough hydrates that it blocks the pipe entirely (see: Hydrate plug, above).
A hydrate plug is one massive pain in the ass to remove, and removal of said hydrate plugs is not a task to be undertaken by idiots, rank amateurs, morons, the terminally unlucky, or stupid people.
The Recommended Best Practice to clear a hydrate plug is a vvveeerryyy slllooowww depressurisation from BOTH ENDS, SIMULTANEOUSLY.
As the line reaches one standard atmosphere, heat is transferred to the plug from the environment, and the plug begins to melt, starting at the plug/wall interface.
However, if you are a national gas company with institutional paranoia, a Nationalised aversion to looking weak or asking for help, and a Good Idea Fairy fueled by vodka -- well, you can depressurise the pipe from one end.
The hydrate plug will still melt at the plug/wall junction, but when it does, the pressurised side will launch the plug (five feet in diametre, and the same density as water ice) at almost 200 miles an hour down the pipe towards the depressurised side.
When this plug bullet hits a bend in the pipe -- well, it doesn't stop, nor does it change direction easily. It's going to make a hole.
What's even more fun is when somebody figures out what's happening and slams the valves closed ahead of that fast-moving plug. It's called the Diesel Effect, and it's basically a large amount of lovely, flammable natural gas is suddenly compressed well above the ignition point between a fast-moving chunk of hydrate and a closed valve.
Boom. Big bada-boom.
Another fun thing that occurs to usually-intelligent people is to "gently warm the area of pipe where the plug is".
Don't do this. Methane hydrates disassociate really, really rapidly in the presence of heat. A pocket of gas will form somewhere inside the plug, next to the pipe wall, and the massive, localised pressure increase will rupture the pipe, spilling vapourised natural gas all over your heat source. (See "Bada-boom, above.) 
Finally, for some reason, bureaucrats, politicians, amateurs, the alcohol-inspired, and idiots (but I repeat myself) always want to "Just blow that fucking plug out of the pipe".
Don't do this. Ever. Just ... don't.

 

Source

https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

[Utah Bob #35998]

TNT.?
https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-gas-leak-caused-hundreds-pounds-explosives-un-russia-2022-10#:~:text=1 Leaks in the Nord Stream pipelines were,blame%2C but Russia suggested the US was responsible.