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Norinco 97


Rye Miles #13621

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A friend of mine is selling off some guns due to health and bills etc. 

Im buying a Norinco 97 , used for 3 bills.

I’m trying to help him out and I may use it occasionally (I’m a SxS sg guy)

my question is how good or bad and how about parts for this if needed down the road?

Thanks in advance 

Rye

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I use one as a main match sg.  It will take some getting used to; loading it, there are a couple of ways, and getting used to its idiosyncrasies.  For example, the main spring is on the top of the carrier inside the frame.  If it comes loose there will be failure to fire (I found that out the hard way).  Have to keep the screw tight.  If you have a 1911 then you can use it for Wild Bunch.   There are some You Tube videos on using them and, I think, Long Hunter did some a while back.

 

As far as gunsmithing and parts goes, there are a number of names around.  Parts used to be had from PISCO Gunsmithing, but I haven't bought anything from them in a while.  Apart from that, since Norincos are no longer imported, there can be difficulty in acquiring parts for them.  Smiths are Outlaw Gambler, Squibber and Cody Conagher, among others.  BTW, $300 is a great price.

 

Good luck with it.

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3 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

The early prefix numbered guns are garbage

How early? I think he bought this around 10 years ago. I'll find out Friday when I get it.

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Serial numbers beginning with 04 started to be better than the 01, 02, 03 series. 

I stock a full supply of screws for Norinco and IAC and right now I have about every part for them, including barrels.

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On 9/29/2022 at 9:12 AM, Outlaw Gambler said:

Serial numbers beginning with 04 started to be better than the 01, 02, 03 series. 

I stock a full supply of screws for Norinco and IAC and right now I have about every part for them, including barrels.

Thanks, good to know. There’s nothing wrong with it. He did shoot it quite a bit but it was a backup to his Winchester.

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38 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

There’s nothing wrong with it in fact he hardly shot it very much

 

That (he hardly shot it) is not solid proof that there is nothing wrong with it.  But, here's hoping for the best, and that it's an 06 or later,  or even a CB.  Those have a very good chance of being easy to run.

 

good luck, GJ

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What about one that starts with C09?

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2 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

That (he hardly shot it) is not solid proof that there is nothing wrong with it.  But, here's hoping for the best, and that it's an 06 or later,  or even a CB.  Those have a very good chance of being easy to run.

 

good luck, GJ

Now GJ you know he won’t find either of those for $300 regardless of condition. I have a pair of 03 prefix that have run fine for years. The only issues have been the operator errors that I have a propensity to do. Granted they don’t get shot much anymore but a blanket “garbage” from some is not really accurate either. Are there better? Of course. Are those generally more expensive? Of course. 
I have only owned three real Winchester 97’s. One (c model) was a complete POS and a well known California gunsmith finally gave up and said keep it for parts. I sold it with that info to another.  Two E’s, one has been solid the other has been to several different gunsmiths multiple times and I have over $1000 in parts and repairs in addition to purchase price. Does that mean 66% of Winchesters are “garbage”? Of course not. It just means like most things some hold up better than others. 
Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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42 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said:

What about one that starts with C09?

Hey, I can answer that! :)  (Because I have one and have asked Outlaw Gambler about it).

The 'C' indicates 'Cowboy' and is the latest production.  The first 4oo of those were the best ever made and need no work.  After s/n 400 (and something), the rest are very good but they mixed CNC and non-CNC parts, and they might not work as good as the first ones of that series.  Mine is CB009xx that I picked up new last year for $300 (yeah, one of my better deals).  It works feels great and works fine although it doesn't spit the empties out as forcefully as I've been told the best ones do.

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1 minute ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Now GJ you know he won’t find either of those for $300 regardless of condition. I have a pair of 03 prefix that have run fine for years. The only issues have been the operator errors that I have a propensity to do. Granted they don’t get shot much anymore but a blanket “garbage” from some is not really accurate either. Are there better? Of course. Are those generally more expensive? Of course. 
I have only owned three real Winchester 97’s. One (c model) was a complete POS and a well known California gunsmith finally gave up and said keep it for parts. I sold it with that info to another.  Two E’s, one has been solid the other has been to several different gunsmiths multiple times and I have over $1000 in parts and repairs in addition to purchase price. Does that mean 66% of Winchesters are “garbage”? Of course not. It just means like most things some hold up better than others. 
Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

My friend paid around $400 for this about 10 yrs ago. It’s in great shape! He’s selling it to me for $300. Good pard!

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Good deals for both of you. I bought CB001X and CB011X when they first came out and they were $600 each. CB001X is unfired and the other is my WB gun. 
To find one cheap these days is rare. 
Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

BTW neither is for sale

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NEVER said, gents, that all early Norincos and IACs are garbage.  But, ENOUGH WERE so bad that Coyote Cap spent over 4 years teaching the Chinese factory how to pay attention to metal machining operations, so that not every one of the guns would have to be re-fit once they got to the US.  Some early ones got made right with manual machining.  Lots did not.  As an example, I have an 03 and an 04 that were so bad, good  97 gunsmiths told me they would not be able to fix 'em to feed reliably.   One even broke apart in the slide assembly letting the forearm blow right out of the gun.   As I DID say, the later 06 and newer guns are lots better.  I like them as well as most original Winchesters.  But, of course, shortages of replacement parts will ultimately be the death of the Chinese 97s.

 

The way I find "good value" in these 97 clones - an 04 or earlier had better be run hard for 100 rounds live fire before it would even be worth $400.

The 06s and forward - I'd trust to be good enough to warrant $600 and 700 prices.  I'd still put good running Winchesters ahead of the pricing on IACs, though.   A $300 gun - hope springs eternal, don't it?

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

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Abline Al, this is one of the problems caused by mismatching parts between cnc, new non cnc and old non cnc. The ejection is a timing issue and can be corrected, one of the many things Coyote Cap taught me. If you would like it fixed send me an email at outlawgambler@gmail.com

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The only ones they made with 26" and 30" barrels were on a very small number of early production models, they had serial numbers starting with 3 and 4 zeros, ie 0000513. I have only 20.5". If you can find one, be sure to stop and get a lottery ticket.

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1 minute ago, Outlaw Gambler said:

The only ones they made with 26" and 30" barrels were on a very small number of early production models, they had serial numbers starting with 3 and 4 zeros, ie 0000513. I have only 20.5". If you can find one, be sure to stop and get a lottery ticket.

This is a short barrel one, I'm getting it today! It did have the lousy paint finish on it and my friend stripped it down and refinished it. It looks pretty good.

I'll post pictures later.

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I have a Norinco stamped 97 with an 02 starting serial number, been running that gun hard for over 20 years without a single problem. What Cap talks about in the video between the 28 min.- 30 min. mark, happened to me a few months ago. Scared the hell out of me, the flag spring must have given out, I never tampered with it.

The explosion took a chunk out of the left side of the bolt. Sent the gun down to Cody Conagher, he replaced the bolt, checked everything else out, put it back together and said the rest of the gun was fine and it's up and running again.

I'd never seen that happen to a 97 before, but it can happen. Just thought I'd mention it.

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On 9/29/2022 at 3:50 PM, Outlaw Gambler said:

Abline Al, this is one of the problems caused by mismatching parts between cnc, new non cnc and old non cnc. The ejection is a timing issue and can be corrected, one of the many things Coyote Cap taught me. If you would like it fixed send me an email at outlawgambler@gmail.com

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8 hours ago, Outlaw Gambler said:

The only ones they made with 26" and 30" barrels were on a very small number of early production models, they had serial numbers starting with 3 and 4 zeros, ie 0000513. I have only 20.5". If you can find one, be sure to stop and get a lottery ticket.

0001 192 He refinished the wood and he actually shot it quite a bit. 

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9CC6A1CE-9391-41CB-8374-AEDE109F48BA.jpeg

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On 9/29/2022 at 9:50 PM, Outlaw Gambler said:

Abline Al, this is one of the problems caused by mismatching parts between cnc, new non cnc and old non cnc. The ejection is a timing issue and can be corrected, one of the many things Coyote Cap taught me. If you would like it fixed send me an email at outlawgambler@gmail.com

I have the same problem with my Norinco (s/n 06...). Sometimes an empty case is not ejected at all. Unfortunately we do not have a specialist in this weapon in Germany.

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Bought Ellie #CB 0187 and it didn't eject at all. You had to hold the fore stock and bang the butt on a bench to make it eject. It would take a notch right out of the hull! Sent it back to Cap for repairs and still only just barely ejects, they roll off the back of your hand. It wouldn't feed from the tube because the spring was cut too short! I replaced that and at least it works well enough for Ellie. Obviously it was never cycled after the bolt was signed! Oh well!

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Eyesa Horg, I read about your problems with it and I would like a chance to look it over. If you will send it to me I will not charge anything to find the problem. It may be something minor but not sure without seeing it. If it is one of the items that Cap made me aware of I will update it at no cost to you. All I ask is that you pay for shipping back to you. Let me know by email at outlawgambler@gmail.com so I can reply with a copy of my FFL so you can ship it. If you do ship it please remove and keep the stock. This way it won't be damaged in transit. I accept shipments from individuals and will return it directly to you without you paying a dealer on your end.

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RYE,

There is some good and accurate information above post by some knowledgeable Wire Pards.  

 

From my personal experience, here is my opinion:

1.   The 04 series and up appear to be better IAC's.    They can be tuned to run as good as anyone is capable of running them.

 

2. 'SOME' of the 01 thru 03 series are good.....but a real good 97 smith might be needed to enhance their life span.

And it doesn't hurt the 04 series and up to also be tuned by a good smith.

 

3.  I use an 01 series and an 09 series for my dry fire practice with good results.

I used an 03 and 04 series for about 8 years in all my monthly matches and side match speed competition.

My 04 series model can be considered a 97 lovers 'dream model'.   It's flawless.   It has been abused and still keeps

on ticking.

 

4.  I presently use 3 CB series (Cowboy) models for monthly matches..... including my 03 series model.   These are just

darn good guns.

 

5.  Like all of our guns, your gonna find folks who swear by some and folks that curse some of them.   

 

$300 is a great price..... regardless

I think a properly tuned IAC 97 is as good, if not better, than a Winny 97.

 

Good luck and I hope you enjoy your new toy.     

 

..........Widder

 

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