Snowden

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Putin has granted Edward Snowden Russian citizenship.  Hopefully this is to qualify him for the draft.

[Rip Snorter]

Dam', a good plan to diminish their military!

[Sedalia Dave]

One can only hope he is conscripted and sent to the front.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

As a legitimate whistleblower, he went through channels, then used the media to try to tell us about the DOJ and FBI gathering and using our data against us, but we let the politicians and media shut our ears to him. 

Yet another (much earlier) patriot threatened with prosecution and intimidation.  We should have seen it coming.  

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

What he did was illegal and he knew it. If his motives were good and he was a patriot, then he would have stayed in the US and taken his penalties. Others have done so and have ultimately been released. 

 

He's a man without a country now, whatever this latest. He's also let himself be a propaganda pawn for Putin. The timing is no accident.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

16 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

What he did was illegal and he knew it. If his motives were good and he was a patriot, then he would have stayed in the US and taken his penalties. Others have done so and have ultimately been released. 

 

He's a man without a country now, whatever this latest. He's also let himself be a propaganda pawn for Putin. The timing is no accident.

You've oversimplified some.

 

I think he is doing what he has to do to survive now.  

 

I believe the following to be accurate.

 

He started by verbally bringing the DOJ's inappropriate public surveillance programs to his superiors' attention.  They told him to "stand down".  So he went up the chain to their superiors, and was threatened with discipline.  He felt strongly, so he filed a formal Whistle-blower complaint letter via his Congressperson and OMB.  It was turned over to the Congressional Research Office, and none of the required  responsive actions or documentation  ever resulted. 

 

So he took the issue to the people, via the media.  That action publicity inflamed and politically threatened the then-current Administration, including the  accused Attorney General and FBI.  They quickly went after him, citing various "treasonous acts"--actions  that have never actually been enumerated or validated.  (frighteningly similar to those same agencies'  efforts against  Donald Trump with the fake Russia-gate accusations.)   

 

Snowden then  fled the country under threat of criminal prosecution.  They took action to intimidate and silence him, and to search for a crime to criminally indict him (sound familiar -- think Trump again).

 

The progression that Snowden followed was all protected under the Whistle-blower Act, but his rights were over-ridden and ignored in the wake of intense  political and media hype focused against him.  America was convinced that he was a conspiracy theorist, turned Russian spy.  (familiar?)

 

I don't believe he anticipated the  persecution, and certainly not the prosecution that would be pursued.  I don't think criminal  prosecution was in his mind until The DOJ and FBI came after him --exactly what he had warned about.   

 

They covered their agency trail by using a generic indictment, and  abundant media banter to  discredit him.    

 

Russia believed all the "top secret" accusations and they made him conditionally welcome, but to my knowledge, there is no solid evidence that he ever shared secret information with them. 

 

I suspect  he has been granted Russian citizenship as a symbolic affront to our present Administration's assistance to Ukraine.  

 

We should have listened to Snowden.  Today, every word that any of us writes  here or Tweets or emails or texts to anyone, and every website we access via Internet is being catalogued at the Utah Federal Data Center.  It will enable them to rapidly scan for any obscure  criminal act or implied intent, should we ever get at crossed function with political agendas and narratives.  

 

It sounds more like Russia or China than the USA.  Snowden warned us and we ignored him.  Look around at what you are seeing now. 

 

 

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Without touching upon the merits of what he did, with which I personally strongly disagree, he fled prosecution. He knowingly violated serious laws, claiming service of the public interest. Were he sincere, he'd take his medicine, dire as it might prove. This might vindicate what he claims to be a patriotic motive.

 

Daniel Ellsberg, Manning, and others have done so. Whatever one thinks of them and the outcomes, they did not try to escape prosecution for what they knowingly did. And they are free. He will never be free, which is what he deserves.

[DocWard]

5 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Without touching upon the merits of what he did, with which I personally strongly disagree, he fled prosecution. He knowingly violated serious laws, claiming service of the public interest. Were he sincere, he'd take his medicine, dire as it might prove. This might vindicate what he claims to be a patriotic motive.

 

Daniel Ellsberg, Manning, and others have done so. Whatever one thinks of them and the outcomes, they did not try to escape prosecution for what they knowingly did. And they are free. He will never be free, which is what he deserves.

 

I won't pretend to put myself in his shoes. Perhaps he feared more for his life than his freedom. I do agree, however, that the right thing to do would have been to stand and face the fire, whatever the outcome.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Snowden was entrusted with national secrets and he doesn't get to decide which one's he keeps and which one's he talks about to the media.  What those national secrets were are irrelevant.  He had the option to quit and not be part of something he didn't believe in.  He did not have the option to blab top secret information to the media.  As far as I'm concerned, he can stay in Russia and enjoy their winters.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

If Snowdens actions and crimes are deemed by some to so noble, perhaps those should also pack up and join him???

[Dusty Devil Dale]

2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

If Snowdens actions and crimes are deemed by some to so noble, perhaps those should also pack up and join him???

 Snowden's warning was that the Communist public Intel  tactics that Russians have to live with are fast coming here to live with us.   So there is no need to "pack up and join him". 

 

His "crimes" were never specifically called out in DOJ's very generic indictment.  The entire criminal aspect was over-played in the Left's media, to attempt to cancel American's belief of Snowden, that DOJ and FBI impropriety were and ARE occurring and encroaching.  Snowden was agency damage control fodder.  The Left-owned media was deployed to cancel Snowden, and they obviously succeeded in  convincing many.   

[July Smith]

Snowden's own book Permanent Record is well worth the short time it takes to read.  For those not interested in reading or buying the book, there are two interviews by Joe Rogan available for free on Youtube and Spotify.  The man gave up a very lucrative government carrier, risked his own freedom (possibly his life) to bring awareness to a very serious issue.  The least you all could do before wishing he be sent to the front lines of Ukraine is listen to what he actually has to say and the reasons behind his actions.   

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Do keep in mind who the Federal Administration was in 2014, when all of the actions against Snowden were taken.  

 

President:  Barrack Obama. 

 

AG:  Eric Holder

 

FBI Director:  James Comey.  

 

Trustworthy bunch?

[Slapshot]

3 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Snowden was entrusted with national secrets and he doesn't get to decide which one's he keeps and which one's he talks about to the media.  What those national secrets were are irrelevant.  He had the option to quit and not be part of something he didn't believe in.  He did not have the option to blab top secret information to the media.  As far as I'm concerned, he can stay in Russia and enjoy their winters.

He brought to light wrong doings but he should have  just kept quiet and let the Fed gov continue business as usual?  Just as every Marine has the duty to disobey unlawful orders each individual should disobey a tyrannical government or one fast moving towards being one against the people. Our Gov is nothing short of just a bunch of old corrupt politicians with a bunch of young new corrupt ones to replace the ones if and when they ever die.

 

As far as I am concerned.

[Slapshot]

13 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

You've oversimplified some.

 

I think he is doing what he has to do to survive now.  

 

I believe the following to be accurate.

 

He started by verbally bringing the DOJ's inappropriate public surveillance programs to his superiors' attention.  They told him to "stand down".  So he went up the chain to their superiors, and was threatened with discipline.  He felt strongly, so he filed a formal Whistle-blower complaint letter via his Congressperson and OMB.  It was turned over to the Congressional Research Office, and none of the required  responsive actions or documentation  ever resulted. 

 

So he took the issue to the people, via the media.  That action publicity inflamed and politically threatened the then-current Administration, including the  accused Attorney General and FBI.  They quickly went after him, citing various "treasonous acts"--actions  that have never actually been enumerated or validated.  (frighteningly similar to those same agencies'  efforts against  Donald Trump with the fake Russia-gate accusations.)   

 

Snowden then  fled the country under threat of criminal prosecution.  They took action to intimidate and silence him, and to search for a crime to criminally indict him (sound familiar -- think Trump again).

 

The progression that Snowden followed was all protected under the Whistle-blower Act, but his rights were over-ridden and ignored in the wake of intense  political and media hype focused against him.  America was convinced that he was a conspiracy theorist, turned Russian spy.  (familiar?)

 

I don't believe he anticipated the  persecution, and certainly not the prosecution that would be pursued.  I don't think criminal  prosecution was in his mind until The DOJ and FBI came after him --exactly what he had warned about.   

 

They covered their agency trail by using a generic indictment, and  abundant media banter to  discredit him.    

 

Russia believed all the "top secret" accusations and they made him conditionally welcome, but to my knowledge, there is no solid evidence that he ever shared secret information with them. 

 

I suspect  he has been granted Russian citizenship as a symbolic affront to our present Administration's assistance to Ukraine.  

 

We should have listened to Snowden.  Today, every word that any of us writes  here or Tweets or emails or texts to anyone, and every website we access via Internet is being catalogued at the Utah Federal Data Center.  It will enable them to rapidly scan for any obscure  criminal act or implied intent, should we ever get at crossed function with political agendas and narratives.  

 

It sounds more like Russia or China than the USA.  Snowden warned us and we ignored him.  Look around at what you are seeing now. 

 

 

Exactly this.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

11 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Without touching upon the merits of what he did, with which I personally strongly disagree, he fled prosecution. He knowingly violated serious laws, claiming service of the public interest. Were he sincere, he'd take his medicine, dire as it might prove. This might vindicate what he claims to be a patriotic motive.

The agencies were allowed to skip over his Whistle-blower Act legal protections.   Based upon the Act, he was entitled to written direction and guidance, regarding disposition of his claim, and to public privacy and anonymity.  He received neither.  Instead he was publicly persecuted and indicted for having the audacity to call out  the Leftist agenda being unconstitutionally and aggressively played out by Federal law enforcement agencies against U.S. citizens.   

 

It begs the question what was occurring with those agencies or their political partners  that required law enforcement unlawful  intimidation to keep covered up.   

 

My own uncontrolled curiosity drifts toward past and future  election manipulation and tampering. 

 

 

[Possum Stu]

5 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

If Snowdens actions and crimes are deemed by some to so noble, perhaps those should also pack up and join him???

 

A counteroffer: Perhaps those who love their government spying on them should pack up and head for China, North Korea, or Cuba? I'd be happy to help crowdfund their airline tickets and help them pack!

[Sixgun Sheridan]

I don't like what Snowden did. I don't like what the government did either. There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Somebody who won’t try to escape the country.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Ou est les neiges d'antan?

[Subdeacon Joe]

Has Snowden been convicted?  Or just charged?  I haven't found anything about a conviction.  Just (secretly) charged with crimes.  And it seems the crimes were reporting what a court did say was an illegal and possibly unconstitutional operation.

We rail about the ATF and it's unconstitutional overreach.  Shouldn't we be even more concerned when the State runs a massive spying operation on American citizens?  Shouldn't we be concerned about the millions of warrantless searches?

"Well, he should have stood and taken his kangaroo conviction like a man!"  Hogwash.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Off topic slightly, but you taught me something usefull. 

I blocked your French question, intending to go to my browser and paste it in to ask for a translation.  When I blocked the French words, a "Translate" option appeared in the command line,  along with the usual Copy, Paste, Cut, etc.   I have never noticed that option previously.  

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

A very old French poem that Joe evokes as a pun. It's a meditation on the passage of time. The repeated line, "But where are the snows of yesteryear" is powerful. Where indeed? 

 

They are gone, along with everything else....

[Dusty Devil Dale]

9 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Well, he should have stood and taken his kangaroo conviction like a man!"  Hogwash.

Agree fully.

Understanding the gravity of what was being covered up by the agencies and the desperate personalities involved in those agencies,  I suspect  Snowden believed he was fleeing for his life.   Watching the same group of people imprison Jan 6 protesters for over a year without being formally charged, it doesn't leave much doubt about their disrespect for the Constitution and Bill of Rights.  

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Ou est les neiges d'antan?

 

I was quoting Yossarian from Catch-22 who was intentionally misquoting Villon.

[watab kid]

heard that today as well - hope he likes it there , wish more that thought/acted like him would go there too , 

[Dusty Devil Dale]

13 hours ago, July Smith said:

Snowden's own book Permanent Record is well worth the short time it takes to read. 

Thank you.  I ordered the book and will take time to read it.  Reading the reviews was, itself, an eye opener.  I cannot wait to get it and open the cover.  Apparently the NSA is trying to suppress its further printing and confiscate all proceeds.  Pretty scary.

I am sure my purchase is already documented in the Utah facility.  

[Possum Stu]

On 9/27/2022 at 9:52 AM, July Smith said:

Snowden's own book Permanent Record is well worth the short time it takes to read.  For those not interested in reading or buying the book, there are two interviews by Joe Rogan available for free on Youtube and Spotify.  The man gave up a very lucrative government carrier, risked his own freedom (possibly his life) to bring awareness to a very serious issue.  The least you all could do before wishing he be sent to the front lines of Ukraine is listen to what he actually has to say and the reasons behind his actions.   

 

Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered the book and look forward to reading it.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

I received it on Saturday and started reading it.  Very informative, good reading. 

 

I recall waaaaay back, a number of years ago, reading about a young 13 year-old boy-genius who sent a letter to the Pentagon that contained their nuclear  launch codes, which the kid had hacked from the Los Alamos website.  They hired him, in part for his skills-- to help make their sites secure--  and in part to keep him under control.  What I didn't know, until now, was that the kid's name was Edward Snowden.  What he describes in the book about the Fed agencies is pretty chilling.  

I'm only about halfway into the book.  Good reading.  His genius is evident in his writing. 

 

 

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:45 PM, Subdeacon Joe said:

Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?

Are you a Joseph Heller fan?

[Subdeacon Joe]

16 minutes ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

Are you a Joseph Heller fan?

 

Other than Catch 22 I can't think of anything of his.  So, in general, I guess not.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I received it on Saturday and started reading it.  Very informative, good reading. 

 

I recall waaaaay back, a number of years ago, reading about a young 13 year-old boy-genius who sent a letter to the Pentagon that contained their nuclear  launch codes, which the kid had hacked from the Los Alamos website.  They hired him, in part for his skills-- to help make their sites secure--  and in part to keep him under control.  What I didn't know, until now, was that the kid's name was Edward Snowden.  What he describes in the book about the Fed agencies is pretty chilling.  

I'm only about halfway into the book.  Good reading.  His genius is evident in his writing. 

Like the guy, George Hotz, who jailbroke the early iPhones. Apple hired him.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

The further I read into Snowden's Book, Permanent Record, the more I believe it should be required reading for every American.  

[July Smith]

On 10/4/2022 at 3:26 PM, Dusty Devil Dale said:

The further I read into Snowden's Book, Permanent Record, the more I believe it should be required reading for every American.  

Along with all three of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago.