Shamrock Sadie Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Appears the SASS starting position default needs to be clarified as to where the “HANDS” go. SHB v.26.2, p. 13 (Stage Conventions): “If no starting position is given, the shooter shall stand upright with revolvers holstered, hands at the sides, and not touching any firearm.” CLARIFICATION: The default rule is to read as “hands” not touching any firearm. Forearms are not hands, therefore, the forearms may touch firearms. Note: I have clarified this with PWB (ROC Committee) a number of years ago and it still applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin Shootest Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 You are up early this AM, I seem to be a little thick at the moment, Can you elaborate regarding "Where the Hands Go", or more specifically what the issue is? "hands at the sides, and not touching any firearm" seems clear to me? F.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 12 minutes ago, Flyin Shootest said: You are up early this AM, I seem to be a little thick at the moment, Can you elaborate regarding "Where the Hands Go", or more specifically what the issue is? "hands at the sides, and not touching any firearm" seems clear to me? F.S. The phrase..... "not touching any firearm" can be interpreted to mean that NO PART of the body can be touching a firearm. That was not the intent of that rule. The intent of the rule is that THE HANDS can't be touching any firearm. On a side note: when I'm standing in the default position, my forearms are 'touching' the grips of my pistols because of the position in which I wear my pistols. And I would venture to guess when most folks strap on 2 revolvers and stand upright with their arms hanging downward along their side, their forearms are probably 'touching' their pistol grips. P.S. - Thanks Sadie. Wording it correctly is noteworthy. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Wouldn’t it be so much easier and most importantly consistent if the stage writer just included the hands position in the scenarios. Usually just 3 or 4 words suffice. Just make the “default hands” on pistols no matter what the starting gun is. AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Thank you for bringing this up @Shamrock Sadie! Branchwater Jack's approach is great, in my opinion. Shooter's discretion so long as consistent with stage directions and hands not touching guns or ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 27 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Thank you for bringing this up @Shamrock Sadie! Branchwater Jack's approach is great, in my opinion. Shooter's discretion so long as consistent with stage directions and hands not touching guns or ammo. Speaking of Branchwater , Where's that boy been ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 So who thinks that having other parts of the body, such as forearms (even belly, knee) touching firearms provides any degree of competitive advantage at the start? Seems the rule is clear, that at default position the HANDS may not touch any firearm. I might understand that we now need to add "or ammo" to keep those potato grubbers (or chile snatchers) off the shotgun shells as well. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 24 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: Speaking of Branchwater , Where's that boy been ? Been wondering that myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Sadie Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Flyin Shootest said: You are up early this AM, I seem to be a little thick at the moment, Can you elaborate regarding "Where the Hands Go", or more specifically what the issue is? "hands at the sides, and not touching any firearm" seems clear to me? F.S. We are in South Carolina for my son’s wedding - which was beautiful and fun! Heading to Scarlett Darwin’s house then off to the SE Regional in Alabama. So we are 3 hours ahead of AZ time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Sadie Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Thank you for bringing this up @Shamrock Sadie! Branchwater Jack's approach is great, in my opinion. Shooter's discretion so long as consistent with stage directions and hands not touching guns or ammo. SASS default is “hands” not touching guns; so forearms can touch guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 35 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: So who thinks that having other parts of the body, such as forearms (even belly, knee) touching firearms provides any degree of competitive advantage at the start? Seems the rule is clear, that at default position the HANDS may not touch any firearm. I might understand that we now need to add "or ammo" to keep those potato grubbers (or chile snatchers) off the shotgun shells as well. good luck, GJ Assuming pistols are first I do. If my forearms are touching the butts of my revolvers I don't look at my revolvers while drawing I can look at the first target. If my hands are crossed, pointed down range, holding something, etc, then I'm looking at my first pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 I've added a recommendation to the list of edits to make the SHB definition on page 13 match that of the RO1 text: - If no starting position is given, the shooter shall stand upright with revolvers holstered, hands at the sides not touching any firearm. (SASS default) RO1 p.21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said: hands at the sides, and not touching any firearm. It's that pesky comma! If it were not there, it would mean specifically hands not touching the firearm. With the comma, it means nothing touching the firearm. Oh good grief... Grammar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: It's that pesky comma! If it were not there, it would mean specifically hands not touching the firearm. With the comma, it means nothing touching the firearm. Oh good grief... Grammar! ...which is exactly why the RO1 version will be replacing the SHB version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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