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Low Morale In Ukrainian Artillery


DocWard

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1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

Row, row, row your tank, (not so) gently up the road....

Not a tank. ;)

 

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1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

My mistake, I guess even attempts at humor needs to be precise these days.

Relax. I forgot the ;)

We have an M109 at the VFW post. I have been trying for 5 years to convince the guys it’s not called a tank. :lol:

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8 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Relax. I forgot the ;)

We have an M109 at the VFW post. I have been trying for 5 years to convince the guys it’s not called a tank. :lol:

D521A252-5616-4C34-9DDA-4D0781387E1E.jpeg

Small compared to an M110A2, which must have been so awesome that it had to be sold to other countries or retired.  :huh:

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4 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

Row, row, row your tank, (not so) gently up the road....

 

No, it's not a tank, yes, I spent the majority of my career in the Field Artillery. Yes, I thought it was funny. "Row, row, row your self-propelled howitzer" does sort of lose something.

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12 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

I'm sorry guys, it's been one of those days of being "corrected" all day by my better half. Normally, I have much thicker skin.

My apologies.

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1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Relax. I forgot the ;)

We have an M109 at the VFW post. I have been trying for 5 years to convince the guys it’s not called a tank. :lol:

D521A252-5616-4C34-9DDA-4D0781387E1E.jpeg

Why isn't it a tank?

 

It's got tracks. It's armor plated. It's got a cannon. Isn't that a tank?

 

I could understand if it was running around on tires, or didn't have armor, or had a bunch of machine guns but no cannon.

 

Sure looks like a tank to me.

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40 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Why isn't it a tank?

 

It's got tracks. It's armor plated. It's got a cannon. Isn't that a tank?

 

I could understand if it was running around on tires, or didn't have armor, or had a bunch of machine guns but no cannon.

 

Sure looks like a tank to me.

It's a Self Propelled Gun. The armor isn't as heavy as a tank, It's not meant to fight other vehicles, and I don't think that it can shoot on the move. A tank would kick it's butt.

It's a piece of artillery. Long range, indirect fire weapon. The primary difference between it and what you usually think of as a cannon is that it's not towed behind another vehicle.

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50 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Why isn't it a tank?

 

It's got tracks. It's armor plated. It's got a cannon. Isn't that a tank?

 

I could understand if it was running around on tires, or didn't have armor, or had a bunch of machine guns but no cannon.

 

Sure looks like a tank to me.

 

In general Self Propelled Artillery has a bigger gun, no turret, and lighter armor.  Made to stand off and not be in the middle of the fray.

 

Tanks, in general, are more mobile, have heavier armor, and smaller guns more suited to direct fire (if you can see it you can kill it).  Designed to get into the middle of the action.

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1 hour ago, Alpo said:

Why isn't it a tank?

 

It's got tracks. It's armor plated. It's got a cannon. Isn't that a tank?

 

I could understand if it was running around on tires, or didn't have armor, or had a bunch of machine guns but no cannon.

 

Sure looks like a tank to me.

The crew does not hide inside to shoot.

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1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

In general Self Propelled Artillery has a bigger gun, no turret, and lighter armor.  Made to stand off and not be in the middle of the fray.

 

Tanks, in general, are more mobile, have heavier armor, and smaller guns more suited to direct fire (if you can see it you can kill it).  Designed to get into the middle of the action.

 These day almost all SP guns are turreted. Helps a bit when counter battery fire comes in. Although the M109 armor is just aluminum. Better protection than a shirt.

I had this plaque made for it. I thought about putting NOT A TANK on it but nah…..:lol:

 

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7 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

"Non-facebook types"?

 

Some here in the Saloon don't do the Book of Faces, and thus won't be able to see the posting.

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6 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

It's a Self Propelled Gun. The armor isn't as heavy as a tank, It's not meant to fight other vehicles, and I don't think that it can shoot on the move. A tank would kick it's butt.

It's a piece of artillery. Long range, indirect fire weapon. The primary difference between it and what you usually think of as a cannon is that it's not towed behind another vehicle.

 

That's going to depend entirely on the range involved... At, say, 5+ miles, particularly with today's munitions, my money is on the howitzer! :D

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2 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

Some here in the Saloon don't do the Book of Faces, and thus won't be able to see the posting.

 

That I get. I'm not on FB, haven't been and won't be. But I haven't thought of myself as a "non-facebook type"!

 

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7 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

 

That I get. I'm not on FB, haven't been and won't be. But I haven't thought of myself as a "non-facebook type"!

 

 

I'm certainly open to a new and different term! :)

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16 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

 These day almost all SP guns are turreted. Helps a bit when counter battery fire comes in. Although the M109 armor is just aluminum. Better protection than a shirt.

I had this plaque made for it. I thought about putting NOT A TANK on it but nah…..:lol:

 

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I don’t believe it’s called a turret, but the tubes certainly have a traverse. It’d be useless it they could only shoot straight ahead.  The traverse is not as many degrees as a tank for stability reasons.

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3 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

I don’t believe it’s called a turret, but the tubes certainly have a traverse. It’d be useless it they could only shoot straight ahead.  The traverse is not as many degrees as a tank for stability reasons.

It’s called a cab. Don’t know why. 

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Ukraine’s artillery is a logistical nightmare. Wikipedia has a pretty good list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Armed_Forces_of_Ukraine#Self-propelled_artillery

12 different self propelled designs including 48+ M109s donated by three or more countries, 10 towed designs, several mortar units, more rocket devices.

 

the 300,000 must be infantry, Russia does not have enough motorized stuff to use them as armor or artillery.

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Howdy Pards

 

Thanks to DocWard for injecting a wee bit of humor into an otherwise grim situation.

 

As others have mentioned, it brings back memories of when I matriculated at The Fort Sill School for Wayward Boys.

 

IMHO, those tracked artillery pieces will never replace memories of a towed 105mm howitzer and giving the lanyard a yank to fire the round. In those days the Army didn’t require hearing protection. Somehow my hearing remains in a normal range. Our NCO’s, many of whom had hearing impairment as a result, advised us to holler as the lanyard was pulled. Said it equalized the pressure on the ear drum.

 

Must have worked.

 

Keep on the sunny side 

 

Adios

 

Fort Reno Kid 

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59 minutes ago, Fort Reno Kid said:

those tracked artillery pieces will never replace memories of a towed 105mm howitzer and giving the lanyard a yank to fire the round.

 

At a live shoot of muzzle loading artillery about 10 years ago one of the people watching had been a cannoneer in WWII and in chatting with him he said he would love to feel it once more.  We had two rounds left,  I talked with the owner of the gun I was in charge of, got his OK.  Called the older gentleman over told him he would fire the next round.  "Lay it good so I get a hit!" he said.  Target was a piece of cardboard about 3/4 the size of a man mounted on a standard U-frame fence post, about 600 yards, uphill about 100 feet.    I laid it VERY carefully.  Got it loaded, handed him the lanyard.  The shot hit the base of that fencepost.  It was kind of impressive,  big plume of dirt, cardboard flying everywhere.  His grin almost split his face in half.  Now, I'm not small, 6' and at that  time about 270#.  He was about 6'5" and about 250#.  He wrapped me in a bear hug and lifted me up.  One of the finer moments of my life.  

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