Swapping Barrels on old 1897s Winchesters

[Col Del Rio]

I have a fairly good 1897 (made 1947) that I use for WB. It came with the 30 inch barrel. I really don’t want to cut down this barrel. 

 

In the past with other shotguns I have tried swapping barrels with the Barrel Extension & Adjusting Sleeve as a whole unit , but this often led to lock up problems. 

 

Do I have to retain the original Barrel Extension & Adjusting Sleeve from the action? 

Is the barrel threaded into the Barrel Extension & Adjusting Sleeve? (Videos I’ve seen are inconclusive).

 

Thanks

 

Col. Del Rio

[Blackwater 53393]

A competent gunsmith can usually make it work. I’ve had a couple done.

[Outlaw Gambler]

You do not have to retain the original take down extension, and if you try to remove it you will be one "oop's" away from ruining it by twisting it out of the figure eight configuration. I would suggest a replacement barrel, either already shortened or you can shorten it, with a take down extension already installed. It can be fit to your receiver using the adjusting sleeve. Then use your existing mag tube and action slide to enable you to switch between barrel lengths.

[Outlaw Gambler]

Is the barrel threaded into the Barrel Extension & Adjusting Sleeve? (Videos I’ve seen are inconclusive).

The take down extension is threaded onto the barrel as is the adjusting sleeve. To remove, and install, there is a lock and locking screw in the take down extension that must be removed and reinstalled after the adjustment is made.

["Big Boston"]

7 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

A competent gunsmith can usually make it work. I’ve had a couple done.

 

I concur, the caveat being usually.

 

With a bunch of 1897 parts I purchased I paid up for the tool (vise/clamp) to remove barrels from the extension. I felt compelled to use it and it works nice to remove a barrel for a quick polish and cold blue. Reinstalled is a bit easier. There is a real possibility of collapsing the figure 8 as noted above. This pretty much does the piece in. 

 

Back in the day Winchester sold new extensions, new barrels and kits of extension rings. Fitting new parts is difficult, re-fitting old parts can be downright challenging. The parts were fit by removing metal in the right place. If that metal has been fitted too much, needing to put back metal puts you out of the game. 

 

The important factors are:

• if he new barrel and extension are not "centered like the removed barrel and extension, a new chamber ring needs to be reamed for the new barrel/extension.
• there is a 2.5º fitting angle between the extension and the receiver, and that's a bit tricky to set up. ( I have a resurrected 1897 that had some abuse in that area, and I'm letting it fit itself a little bit every time I take it apart.)
• the magazine tube wears as well, and some fitting may be required, installing a new tube is the better way to go.

All in all, even a competent smith will be doing some stress sweating, especially if not all the tools are at his disposal. I would cut the barrel on what you have, if all the working parts are in alignment and not worn. That would be like hitting the easy button. With the advent of steel shot, the old 97 is no longer a hunting gun. (Not absolute but nearly that way). I understand the desire to keep the long barrel. I have two shotguns that I do not use for CAS, that still have their original long barrels. The rest were circumcised.

 

IIRC this topic was covered a few weeks ago, perhaps try and search it up. 

 

I discovered a little tuning secret with the 1897. For slicker action I would blueprint the action bars on my 870 pumps. I tried that on my first 1897. That is not how a 1897 works, the action bar needs a bend to it and it has to rub against the side of the opening it goes through. This keeps the tip pushed into the groove in the carrier. 

 

The picture below shows the correct wear pattern. I stole the picture from some post, none of mine have the same look as they do not have any bluing left.

 

 

You can also check the relationship between the action bar and carrier if you look into the action with the action open. 

 

 

Zero clearance needed. depending on wear, this can give timing issues, makes setting the trigger stop a bit of a challenge. 

 

Some guns wear in, others wear out. The 97 is in the later category. Usually takes a 100 years or so, but over half of all the 1897s out there meet that criteria. They can be made to run again, but they will need attention again long before another 100 years. 

 

BB

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I have two 97's, one with a 20" and the other with a 30" barrel.   Both are takedowns.   One day, I tried swapping the barrels, just to see if they would swap.  They did with no problem.

Maybe I was lucky,

[Rip Snorter]

Vague memory that there are year ranges that work within and others outside that don't without expert fitting.  Can't recall the source. 

["Big Boston"]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:34 PM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I have two 97's, one with a 20" and the other with a 30" barrel.   Both are takedowns.   One day, I tried swapping the barrels, just to see if they would swap.  They did with no problem.

Maybe I was lucky,

 

I seem to have about 4 or 5 1897s at any one time, and usually you can swap. I use this as a method to access the tune required to fix the basket cases. If I can swap the barrel and extension from a known good, not overly molested one, onto the receiver I'm working on, I know that there is hope. IOW, I should be able to select a new adjusting sleeve and tighten up the fit. I've even swapped the adjusting rings to determine if the suspect gun is unique or just normal. 

 

There are two other aspects to the fit. The first is the distance from the breach of the barrel to the barrel chamber ring. The original instructions called for fitting a new chamber ring when doing a barrel swap. The availability of new chamber rings makes that instruction somewhat void. The last shotgun I worked on needed an adjusting sleeve swap, and after doing that I had an issue with the chamber ring not aligning with the chamber in the barrel. If you would try and test fire a shotgun with this condition, the fired shell could get pretty jammed in the chamber. The solution is to enlarge the chamber ring where needed and then smooth the surfaces. This method will function correctly, but the brass head will have a slight step in it. This step is strictly cosmetic, 

 

The other issue was that because the barrel was now deeper into the action, the barrel was contacting the chamber ring. The clearance at this point should not be interference, but just a wee bit of a gap. The solution was to use a marker to show the high spots and to lap them down. Repeat until there is no contact. 

 

This was on a matched action and barrel. This gun was mildly messed up, but somewhat typical of what is out there. Anytime the adjustment ring is changed to tighten up the works, these two issues need to be checked. 

 

None of this fitting is overly complicated, nor are any special tools required. I'm not a trained gunsmith. Doing the first one can be daunting, the second one is easier. 

 

One issue is parts, they are usually used, and could have come from a really messed up gun. Now, instead of fixing an issue with a "new" part you end up introducing some other guns problem into yours. This can be frustrating. 

 

But with two random samples, you were a bit lucky. 

 

BB