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Will CZ Sharp-Tail Coach work for clays?


Tallboy

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I was leaning towards buying a CZ Sharp-Tail for CAS. Considering cowboy shooting is only once per month in my area, I also want to use the shotgun other times. The only range that supports shotguns is a trap/skeet range, which I'd like to bring it to.


I do not know much trap/skeet or shotguns (still in the research stage of that at the moment).

 

I'm wondering though if this shotgun would work for that too. If it doesn't, I basically will just never get to shoot it hardly ever.

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You can use a coach gun for trap and skeet but it's not going to be the best tool for the job.  I wouldn't let that stop me from shooting trap and skeet if that's all you have.  Go and enjoy that CZ coach gun and later on you may want to buy a shotgun that is better for that sport.  

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And there is no law that states you have to run a short barreled gun. You might be able to use that longer barreled gun...

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When the sporting clay range was still open, a group of used to shoot using our cowboy guns. I used a 20 ga Rossi hammer double, another used a Stoeger 12 ga double, and another used a win 97 clone. We got a lot of funny looks until the clay started busting. 

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I use my Sharp-Tail Coach Gun for skeet every now and then and do well with it. Haven't shot a 25 with it but have shot a couple of 24's. The guys I shoot with get a hoot out of it. :-) The open chokes aren't that great for trap or sporting clays.

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1 minute ago, Long Hunter SASS #20389L said:

I use my Sharp-Tail Coach Gun for skeet every now and then and do well with it. Haven't shot a 25 with it but have shot a couple of 24's. The guys I shoot with get a hoot out of it. :-) The open chokes aren't that great for trap or sporting clays.

Oh awsome, thanks Long Hunter. I was actually going to order it from you... I just didn't want to bug you with too many questions.


What do you mean 25 vs 24s?

 

Also, were you using the 20" or the 28" barrel? 

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Skeet involves targets at fairly short range.  A shotgun with no choke is better suited for skeet than for trap where the targets are flying away from the shooter.

 

I have heard of some shotgun ranges that place restrictions on the type of shotguns that can be used.  Some might require a minimum barrel length that is longer than than “Coach Gun” length.  I’d check on that to be sure.  At my home club I took a guest to the skeet field.  His 18” Benelli Nova with black plastic furniture drew some disapproving looks and comments that shorter barreled shotguns are too loud.  Some people you just have to ignore.

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1 minute ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

Skeet involves targets at fairly short range.  A shotgun with no choke is better suited for skeet than for trap where the targets are flying away from the shooter.

 

I have heard of some shotgun ranges that place restrictions on the type of shotguns that can be used.  Some might require a minimum barrel length that is longer than than “Coach Gun” length.  I’d check on that to be sure.  At my home club I took a guest to the skeet field.  His 18” Benelli Nova with black plastic furniture drew some disapproving looks and comments that shorter barreled shotguns are too loud.  Some people you just have to ignore.

Ah great info, thank you. 

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48 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

Oh awsome, thanks Long Hunter. I was actually going to order it from you... I just didn't want to bug you with too many questions.


What do you mean 25 vs 24s?

 

Also, were you using the 20" or the 28" barrel? 

24/25 are scores.  Skeet and trap are shot in 25 shot rounds (one box).   Sporting clays are usually 50 or 100 birds, 10 per station.  Skeet is short range with most shots around 20 yards, trap is 40+ and sporting clays can be 10 or 100 yards.  
 

you can shoot a short shotgun in the clay games, but most have gravitated to longer guns for better sight radius and smoother swing.  Sporting clays are usually 30 sa or 32” o/u.  Skeet used to be a 26” o/u, but even there people are shooting longer guns now.  Trap usually 32 or 34” as little movement is required.   If you want a do all gun, I would buy a shorter field gun say 26” and shoot it for sass, field and clay games.  Not ideal for any particular game, but decent for all of them.   Should also be cheaper as guns that length are no longer all that popular.  

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1 hour ago, Still hand Bill said:

24/25 are scores.  Skeet and trap are shot in 25 shot rounds (one box).   Sporting clays are usually 50 or 100 birds, 10 per station.  Skeet is short range with most shots around 20 yards, trap is 40+ and sporting clays can be 10 or 100 yards.  
 

you can shoot a short shotgun in the clay games, but most have gravitated to longer guns for better sight radius and smoother swing.  Sporting clays are usually 30 sa or 32” o/u.  Skeet used to be a 26” o/u, but even there people are shooting longer guns now.  Trap usually 32 or 34” as little movement is required.   If you want a do all gun, I would buy a shorter field gun say 26” and shoot it for sass, field and clay games.  Not ideal for any particular game, but decent for all of them.   Should also be cheaper as guns that length are no longer all that popular.  

Thanks for explaining, that makes sense. What is "30 sa"? Single action?

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38 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

 What is "30 sa"? Single action?

Probably a reference to a semiautomatic shotgun, which is a popular choice for sporting clays since there are often “report pair” or “true pair” target presentations.

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37 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

Thanks for explaining, that makes sense. What is "30 sa"? Single action?

Semi auto.  Action is longer, so to get the same swing, barrel length is shorter than a comparable break action.  
 

skeet is designed to provide all angles of shots, also overhead and incoming.   Trap is to simulate shooting over flushing dogs.  Both are fun, but become games of precision as you get better.   
 

 

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Your coach gun will work for skeet.  I highly recommend that you pattern each barrel to determine the difference between point of aim and the center of the pattern at 30 yards.

 

Pattern it with the loads you will be using. Most guns will pattern differently with different loads.

 

Some doubles will have one barrel so misaligned as to make it rather difficult to consistently hit targets.

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Howdy

 

Short barrels are not required in CAS. Coach guns are named that because they were often carried by guards on a stage coach. But if a farmer wanted to shoot a pheasant for dinner, he would be better served with a shotgun with a longer barrel. The thing is, unlike a rifle which is usually fired at a stationary target, if you want to hit a moving target like a flying bird,  a shotgun with a longer barrel will tend to swing more smoothly and allow the shooter to hit the target.

 

I bought this original 12 gauge Winchester Model 1897 when I first got into CAS. It has a 30 inch full choked barrel. I decided to go with Side by Side shotguns later, but I have won a few Cowboy Trap matches with this old '97. I bring it to the trap field at my club about once a year, and with its 30 inch full choked barrel it does fairly well.

 

poEIL4fEj

 

 

 

 

I have been shooting this old Stevens hammered double in CAS for many years. At some point before I owned it the barrels were cut down to 24 inches, probably originally 28 or 30 inches long. In doing so, the chokes were sawed off, so it has now open chokes or cylinder bore. Not that it matters for CAS, but when I took it to the trap range at my club a bunch of years ago I had trouble hitting anything with it.

 

pnJItA1sj

 

 

 

Once the shot leaves the barrel of a shotgun, the natural tendency is for the shot to spread out. The more open the choke, the wider the pattern will be.

 

 Trap is usually shot with a full choke or a improved modified choke (slightly more open than a full choke). This prevents the pattern from spreading out too much. If the pattern spreads out too much, the target can slip through a 'hole' in the pattern without being hit.

 

I don't shoot skeet or sporting clays much, but the last time I did I was using an Over/Under shotgun with Skeet chokes in it. Skeet chokes are more open and better suited to close in targets.

 

These days when I shoot Trap I usually use this 12 gauge Winchester Model 12 with 30 full choked barrel.

 

pnAsoJzMj

 

 

 

 

I also have a 12 gauge Remington Model 1100 semi-auto shotgun with a full choke, but I don't shoot it much.

 

 

If you want a coach gun, that is fine, we seldom have to worry about the distance to the target in CAS. If you want a shotgun that you can use in both CAS and the modern clay sports you will be limited to a SXS or a pump. Semi-Autos and Over/Unders are not legal in CAS.

 

I would look for a SXS with interchangeable chokes and barrels at least 24 inches long.

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We are planning a mens  fellowship at our church, shooting skeet. I’m going to load up a bunch of brass 10 G shells and bring my external hammered 10G , 28” barrels. Weighs about 30 lbs :o

 

I bet I get a lot of guys wanting to try it! 

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2 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Howdy

 

Short barrels are not required in CAS. Coach guns are named that because they were often carried by guards on a stage coach. But if a farmer wanted to shoot a pheasant for dinner, he would be better served with a shotgun with a longer barrel. The thing is, unlike a rifle which is usually fired at a stationary target, if you want to hit a moving target like a flying bird,  a shotgun with a longer barrel will tend to swing more smoothly and allow the shooter to hit the target.

 

I bought this original 12 gauge Winchester Model 1897 when I first got into CAS. It has a 30 inch full choked barrel. I decided to go with Side by Side shotguns later, but I have won a few Cowboy Trap matches with this old '97. I bring it to the trap field at my club about once a year, and with its 30 inch full choked barrel it does fairly well.

 

poEIL4fEj

 

 

 

 

I have been shooting this old Stevens hammered double in CAS for many years. At some point before I owned it the barrels were cut down to 20 inches, probably originally 28 or 30 inches long. In doing so, the chokes were sawed off, so it has now open chokes or cylinder bore. Not that it matters for CAS, but when I took it to the trap range at my club a bunch of years ago I had trouble hitting anything with it.

 

pnJItA1sj

 

 

 

Once the shot leaves the barrel of a shotgun, the natural tendency is for the shot to spread out. The more open the choke, the wider the pattern will be.

 

 Trap is usually shot with a full choke or a improved modified choke (slightly more open than a full choke). This prevents the pattern from spreading out too much. If the pattern spreads out too much, the target can slip through a 'hole' in the pattern without being hit.

 

I don't shoot skeet or sporting clays much, but the last time I did I was using an Over/Under shotgun with Skeet chokes in it. Skeet chokes are more open and better suited to close in targets.

 

These days when I shoot Trap I usually use this 12 gauge Winchester Model 12 with 30 full choked barrel.

 

pnAsoJzMj

 

 

 

 

I also have a 12 gauge Remington Model 1100 semi-auto shotgun with a full choke, but I don't shoot it much.

 

 

If you want a coach gun, that is fine, we seldom have to worry about the distance to the target in CAS. If you want a shotgun that you can use in both CAS and the modern clay sports you will be limited to a SXS or a pump. Semi-Autos and Over/Unders are not legal in CAS.

 

I would look for a SXS with interchangeable chokes and barrels at least 24 inches long.

Wow, fantastic info as usual, thanks!! I love the photos of your guns you put in your posts, I learn a lot from these.


Based on your suggestion I might go with CZ Sharp Tail 28" tuned by long hunter

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Just now, Tallboy said:

Wow, fantastic info as usual, thanks!! I love the photos of your guns you put in your posts, I learn a lot from these.


Based on your suggestion I might go with CZ Sharp Tail 28" tuned by long hunter

 

I made a mistake quoting the barrel length of my old Stevens SXS. The barrels are 24", not 20". Cut down at some point from 28" or 30".

 

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On 9/22/2022 at 9:59 AM, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

Skeet involves targets at fairly short range.  A shotgun with no choke is better suited for skeet than for trap where the targets are flying away from the shooter.

 

I have heard of some shotgun ranges that place restrictions on the type of shotguns that can be used.  Some might require a minimum barrel length that is longer than than “Coach Gun” length.  I’d check on that to be sure.  At my home club I took a guest to the skeet field.  His 18” Benelli Nova with black plastic furniture drew some disapproving looks and comments that shorter barreled shotguns are too loud.  Some people you just have to ignore.

There's no such thing as a gun that's too loud; there's only hearing protection that isn't up to the task.

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Graywolf and I were playing with his new clay thrower on Friday after a few last minute Ambush repairs. The first round was basically trap and I shot it with my CZ coach gun and loads equivalent to Winchester LNLR. I hit 20, most between the near edge of the creek (42 yards) and just past the far edge of the creek (50 yards) so it can be used for trap if you're on your game. About a dozen were flat smoked.

As for short barrels on some ranges I've heard several reasons. One range it was lack of muzzle discipline with short barrels. Another was to keep ghetto rats from coming out with cheap 18" riot guns and causing problems (given where that range is the reason is more than valid).

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Howdy Again

 

Just for the fun of it I took my 1897 Winchester to the Trap field today. I only hit 19 targets, but seeing as the fit is radically different from my usual Model 12, I was not too unhappy about such a low score.

 

poEIL4fEj

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