Opinion: WRT sealing the chamber in a 66/73, do nickel plated cases seal any better or worse than brass cases, with identical loads.

["Big Boston"]

One can never tell when a new rabbit hole will stare you in the face and tempt you to start the journey downwards. My latest foray into the world of working out a load was initiated by the recent purchase of a reloading bundle. In the bundle was about 4000 38 Special cases. 2000 were in a pail, assorted collection, and I sold those. That left 2000 Federal brass cases still in the factory boxes. I did a quick sort and bundled them up to sell. Several years ago I bought around 1500 nickel cases and I've been using them. I do like that they don't get tarnished and it makes the brass pickers job a bit easier. 

 

I packaged the brass into 16 box lots so they would fit in a Canada Post flat rate box. That left just under 400 brass cases surplus, so I decided to clean them up and perhaps come up with a load for my '66 Yellow Boy carbine (Cimarron). 

 

I used a commercial Magma cast 38-158 RNFP BB and for powder I used my vintage, long ago discontinued 452AA powder. To load 10 in my carbine the OAL cannot be more than 1.5". That is the length I usually load my other bullet. Somewhere at about 1.4" feeding becomes an issue. The Magma 38-158 RNFP BB, when seated in the crimp groove, comes out at about 1.42. For this experiment I crimped between the crimp groove and the lube groove for an OAL of 1.475". I'm not sure why I didn't go with 1.42, but I didn't. 

 

I went to the range with my equipment and sent 10 over the chrony. The average velocity was  890 fps, a mild load IMO. 

 

But it did seem that there wasn't much soot building up on the carrier, and the cases were not overly sooty as well. It does beg the question;

 

Do brass cases seal better than nickel plated ones?

 

BB

 

Addendum:

 

For the curious types, here is the load.:

 

Calibre	38 S&W Special			Date Loaded		2022-09-21
Powder	452AA (Ontario Keg)			Weight in Grains		3.4 (Dillon)
Bullet	Cactus 158 RNFP .357			Weight in Grains		162.5 av
Primer	WW SP			Loaded OAL		1.475
Case	FEDERAL 38 SPECIAL  (Brass)			Weight in Grains		64
Times Loaded				Number loaded
Firearm	YB Rifle, 16” barrel			Barrel clean/fouled		Fouled
Velocity Av	860.7	Es	10.27	Sd	3.16	Shots	10
Comments	Firearm = SASS Ruger; Av = 690 fps

 

I got out the bore camera to look for leading, and did find some streaking starting where the rifling commences, for about 1/4 inch. 

 

BB

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

In my opinion yes brass seals better. I personally do not use nickel brass. If I did it would only be in my pistols and never my rifles. I've had more past problems with 38 special nickel brass cracking almost along the whole length then I ever had with brass. If a case is going to crack and get stuck in a chamber I'd rather it be in my pistol. Just my opinion mind you......

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

From a metallurgy and internal ballistics point of view, no real difference in sealing the chamber.   Nickel cases tend to split for me about 5 times as often as brass cases in the same caliber.  So, I never run nickel plated cases in rifles.  In revolvers, the majority of combustion gas blows out the cylinder gap.   So, no use worrying about sealing there, really.

 

I never leave important ammo in leather gun belts for long.  So the real benefit of nickel plating - it's corrosion resistance - is not valuable to me.

 

Much ado about nothing, other than, don't use nickel plated cases if you want to have high reliability of operations.   Stay out of rabbit holes would be my major advice.

 

good luck, GJ

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

nickel splits way more often that brass for me, too

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

You want a better seal, annealing the brass cases will give you a better seal.

--Dawg

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Sizing just the upper third of the case works real well, too.  Leave most of the case unsized.  

 

And, using thinner brass works well, even if it is headstamped wrong for the rifle used.  Like .44-40 in a .45 Colt rifle.

 

On your testing, you seem to have compared maybe twice-fired brass cases with perhaps several times fired nickel cases.   I would expect the nickel case to have been much harder due to work hardening from resizing the case several times without any annealing.  This may account for the brass cases seeming to be better able to seal than the nickel.

 

good luck, GJ

["Big Boston"]

Certainly not a dull hobby, thanks for the feedback. 

 

Unfortunately, if the Canadian government puts their handgun ban and 5 round max magazine rule into law, cowboy shooting will be pretty much done here in Canada. There is a real downside to voting in the wrong leader. The details are sketchy but tube magazines will need to be shortened, not just plugged. 

 

BB

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Unfortunately, I can't really address Nickel .38 Spl cases in Rifles, as I absolutely refuse to to run Nickel in rifles.  Just way too many failures.  As mentioned above, Nickel cases split 5 or 6 times as often as plain Brass.  Although there is still problem of Blow-By in .38 cartridges (straight wall), for the most part, it's not a huge problem.  Whilst I was chasing the "Brass Ring" I shot about a gazillion rounds of .38 Spl w/TightGroup and just "normal" Cleaning.  With BP and APP, different story.  Fouling from Blow-By quite evident and a nuisance during a match,

 

Nickel vs Plain Brass in .45 Schofield and 44 Special I can address.  Blow-By with Black Powder and APP can be horrendous.  To the point of fouling out the rifle in just 6 or 7 rounds.  Nickel or Plain Brass, same same.  Blow-By bad enough to make the gun super stiff to operate if at all.  Bad Juju.  Nickel cases still split real often.  Icky Foo.

 

Annealed, different story altogether.  Once annealed, the splitting of Nickel cases pretty much went away.  Once annealed, whether Nickel or Plain Brass, Fouling just went away.  Not just reduced.  The guns run as clean as any dash caliber.  I've gone as many as 8 matches with the only cleaning being a PAM patch, followed by a dry patch, then an oily patch through the bore only.  The Carrier Block and the Mortice required no attention.  Opening the action revealed no fouling at all.  Just a little oil and back together.

 

My conclusion:  There is no measurable difference in the Chamber Seal between Nickel Plated and Plain Brass.  The seal is equally lousy prior to Annealing.  After annealing, there is also no difference in the Chamber Seal between Plated or Plain Brass.  Both seal the chamber.  Blow-By goes away.  

 

My experience, My Guns.  YMMV