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New to 12 gauge reloading


Star Shooter

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OK so I've decided it's time for me to start reloading my own shotgun shells as both the wife and I are shooting more matches every year. I've been doing some research but since I'm new to shotgun reloading I thought I would start here and get some advice from people that have been doing this for a while. I have many questions....

 

1 - What press is good for reloading 12 gauge without breaking the bank? Between the two of us we probably shoot about 6 cases of shells a year.

 

2 - What is the best shot size for our sport? I currently use 7.5.

 

3 - What powder do you use? Do you load at the minimum end of the load specs?

 

4 - What shell cases hold up best to reloading - how many times can you reload them?

 

5 - Does the wad choice matter much? As long as the size is correct, is one better than the other for our sport?

 

6 - Does the primer brand matter or is any 209 acceptable?

 

Finally, what are some good places to purchase the above supplies?

 

Thanks for any input you have!!

 

Star Shooter

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A MEC Sizemaster is excellent. Progressives are nice for cranking them out, but fiddly & expensive. (I use an RCBS Grand. Have a love-hate relationship!)

 

7.5 is fine. Probably most popular. Shootin Fox here on sasswire can fix you up with shot. 
 

I use Red dot. I think it’s 13.7 grns with 7/8 oz shot. 
 

STS hulls are my preferred hull

 

Claybuster wads  work well and cheaper than most others available in Amazon 

 

pretty much any 209 primer is good. 
 

wherever you can find them!!! 
 

it cost me around 5.00/box to reload.  

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1 I would start with a MEC 600 

2. At the range we shoot 7 1/2, 8, or 9 is good

3 I load 14 gr of Clays, Claybuster 7/8 oz wad which give me 980 fps. 
4 STS and AA’s are the best.

5 7/8oz Silver Claybuster for me

6 Cheddites are hard to beat. 
Graf and Sons, Ballistic Products are two. Good Luck

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6 hours ago, Star Shooter said:

OK so I've decided it's time for me to start reloading my own shotgun shells as both the wife and I are shooting more matches every year. I've been doing some research but since I'm new to shotgun reloading I thought I would start here and get some advice from people that have been doing this for a while. I have many questions....

 

1 - What press is good for reloading 12 gauge without breaking the bank? Between the two of us we probably shoot about 6 cases of shells a year.

 

2 - What is the best shot size for our sport? I currently use 7.5.

 

3 - What powder do you use? Do you load at the minimum end of the load specs?

 

4 - What shell cases hold up best to reloading - how many times can you reload them?

 

5 - Does the wad choice matter much? As long as the size is correct, is one better than the other for our sport?

 

6 - Does the primer brand matter or is any 209 acceptable?

 

Finally, what are some good places to purchase the above supplies?

 

Thanks for any input you have!!

 

Star Shooter

1.  See this thread: Thinking about getting Auto Progressive Shotgun Loader what's out there - SASS Wire - SASS Wire Forum (sassnet.com)

Look for used presses.  Most are durable.

2. Any legal shot size works.  However, I prefer smaller shot size as sometimes shot bounces back and hits my face.  Smaller shot hurts less.  I loaded #8 1/2 for Land Run.  Your #7 1/2 will work well.  Try to buy shot locally as shipping is expensive.  Shootin Fox in Oklahoma makes and ships shot.

3. I load Alliant Extra-Lite for CAS.  It is designed for 7/8 oz loads.  I load at the bottom of Alliant's published loads and my loads go bang in cold weather.  Some load a grain or two lower.  Others load Clays, Clay Dot, Red Dot and even Unique for light loads.

4. My presses are set up for Remington hulls so that is mostly what I load.  Nitro and STS hulls have brass bases and smooth plastic sides that make nice crimps and shuck well from SxS shotguns.  After the hulls get frosty I use them in pump shotguns.  You can get a dozen or so reloads out of most Nitro and STS hulls.  I also load Gun Club hulls with black powder (or subs) and toss after firing.  Another local black powder shooter loads AA hulls for his '87 with good results.  You can buy once-fired shotgun hulls on gun auction sites.  I pick up all the Gun Club hulls I need for free on clays ranges.  You won't find many Nitro or STS hulls in the trash.

5. Use the wads specified in the published load you choose.  I load with Claybuster CB-0178-12 grey wads.  Wads are available from local gun stores and online retailers.  Presently my Sportsmans stocks the Claybuster wads I load.

6. Use the primer specified in the published load you choose.  Presently I load Cheddite 209s because they are available.  I bought some from my local Sportsmans yesterday.  Four well-known online retailers are selling Cheddite 209s this week.

 

I will send a message with the web addresses of reloading suppliers I trust.

Shooting Fox.PNG

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1 - What press is good for reloading 12 gauge without breaking the bank? Between the two of us we probably shoot about 6 cases of shells a year.  I'd go with a MEC 600 Jr. Simple to use and you can find them used for about $100 - $150.

 

2 - What is the best shot size for our sport? I currently use 7.5.  7.5 or 8 works fine

 

3 - What powder do you use? Do you load at the minimum end of the load specs?  I use Extra Lite with a 3/4 or 7/8 oz. of shot at the minimum charge.

 

4 - What shell cases hold up best to reloading - how many times can you reload them?  Rem STS or Win AA (old design) are what I use. I get around 5 reloads before I have to pitch them.

 

5 - Does the wad choice matter much? As long as the size is correct, is one better than the other for our sport?  Can't beat Claybuster wads

 

6 - Does the primer brand matter or is any 209 acceptable?  These days any 209 you can get will do, but I am seeing Cheddite primers a lot for sale lately.

 

Finally, what are some good places to purchase the above supplies?  Either your local gun store or shop around online.

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Use https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ as a resource for load data.  This will help you get information about what wad works with which powder, primer, etc.

 

I’ve had good luck with my Lee shotshell reloader.  Definitely not the fastest. But easy to use.  https://www.titanreloading.com/ Is a good company to order supplies from.  You’ll have a good reference cost to compare the next time you’re in scheels or guns unlimited.  Based upon wire reviews I’d look at the MEC line.  The extra $ may well be worth the time.

 

My shot guy makes his batches in the winter.  I’ll see what he plans on charging this year   He is one of the small few that run Butterfield Gulch out of Chapman, KS.

 

I use http://www.downrangemfg.com/ wads.  I get them at guns unlimited.  Nebraska made. Plus I think the lime green wads are funny.

 

Spec out the numbers at cost per shell.  I haven’t ran them for a while, but I could almost buy smokeless for what it cost to make. May be different now.  No Winchester rebates lately to cut the cost. With any luck guns unlimited will start getting shot shells pallets soon. 

 

 

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1 - What press is good for reloading 12 gauge without breaking the bank? Between the two of us we probably shoot about 6 cases of shells a year.

I’ve only ever reloaded 12 (and 20) on a Posness-Warren and I love that press. 
 

 

2 - What is the best shot size for our sport? I currently use 7.5. 
7.5 is fine. I don’t mess with anything else. 

 

3 - What powder do you use? Do you load at the minimum end of the load specs?

I use Clays in my clays (sporting clays, trap) loads and BP when I was shooting CAS. 

 

4 - What shell cases hold up best to reloading - how many times can you reload them?

I only reload AA/STS and my personal favorites for BP are the Nitro 27’s (brass colored) but I don’t pick them up once I’ve shot BP in them. 
 

5 - Does the wad choice matter much? As long as the size is correct, is one better than the other for our sport?

Not really. Once you find one that works for

you, you’ll likely never change it unless availability is an issue. 

 

6 - Does the primer brand matter or is any 209 acceptable?

Not really. Once you find one that works for

you, you’ll likely never change it unless availability is an issue. 

 

Finally, what are some good places to purchase the above supplies? 

I believe it was mentioned earlier but your local clays club is a great place to look for reloading presses (folks retire, age out, move on all the time) as well as once-shot hulls (I’ve never had an issue sourcing hulls of any flavor I like). Components  can be had wherever you pick up your other supplies. 

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8 hours ago, Star Shooter said:

5 - Does the wad choice matter much? As long as the size is correct, is one better than the other for our sport?

 

Howdy

 

I have been loading all my CAS shotgun loads with Black Powder for many years, but I started out loading with Smokeless a bazillion years ago.

 

Yes, wad choice is very important.

 

Get yourself a reloading manual from one of the powder manufacturers. I started out many years ago with a manual from Alliant. This particular manual is only going to feature powders made by Alliant, such as Red Dot, Blue Dot, Unique, and American Select to name a few.

 

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

 

The first thing you MUST do is decide what hull you are going to use. Everything else in the recipe flows from the hull you choose, particularly the wad. Some wads are simply wrong for some hulls and can cause a problem.

 

Go to the guide, and select the hull you are going to use. You are going to want 12 gauge, 2 3/4" hulls. I recommend Remington STS hulls, they are the best there are. Winchester AA hulls are pretty good too, but they are no longer a one piece hull.

 

Once you have decided on a hull, choose the weight of shot you want to shoot. A lot of guys like very light loads, such as 3/4 ounce or 7/8 ounce because they will recoil less. If you up your shot charge to 1 ounce or even 1 1/8 ounces you will have more choices for recipes.

 

Click on the weight of shot you want and the hull you are going to use and a bazillion choices will appear. Choose the recipe with a the wad you can find. When I was loading Smokeless shotgun shells for Trap I used Remington STS hulls and Remington Figure 8 wads or the Claybuster equivalent. I started out with Red Dot, but Red Dot burns kind of dirty and was fouling the semi-auto shotgun I was using at the time. I solved the dirty powder problem with Clays, which is not made by Alliant, but Alliant makes a powder called Clay Dot which is just as clean as Clays. American Select burns nice and clean too.

 

But for CAS, how clean the powder burns should not be an issue as we are not shooting semi-auto shotguns that may malfunction with dirty loads. A pump or SXS will work fine with any powder. Choose your recipe based on what you can find. Be sure to check out Claybuster wads, who make knockoffs of all the popular wads.

 

http://www.claybusterwads.com/

 

 

As for a press, I started loading for Trap on my trusty old MEC Jr. The MEC Jr is a single stage press, meaning you move one shell at a time from station to station. I could only turn out about 4 boxes an hour with my MEC Jr. As you can see, I still use it for my black powder shotgun shells.

 

pmvlMAf7j

 

 

 

P.S. Good luck fining components these days. Years ago we could find once fired STS or AA shells, often at a Trap club. Those days are long gone. I am still using about 1,000 once fired STS hulls that I bought years ago. The green ones in this photo. Shot size does not matter for CAS, 7 1/2, 8, or 9 are fine for what we do.

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What everyone else has said, plus, I use 10 grains of Red Dot in my loads.   Given how many of the vintage(ish) shotguns I use only have 2-5/8" chambers instead of the more modern 2-3/4" (and to say nothing of a couple of really old ones I have with 2.5" chambers, I use either AA's that I have trimmed back to 2.5" or Magtech all brass shells.

I have literally thousands of AA's that my father acquired over decades of being a trapshooter.   Some of them are older than I am at 55!  

(Granted for the super old shotguns, I use black powder or a sub.)

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I use a Mec650; it’s not a progressive but it does 6 operations every stroke and once your used to it you can reload a lot of shells quickly.

I use #6 shot mainly because it’s easy to get a little hole in the end of the shell and if I use 6 shot it won’t leak out the hole, if you happen to have a 7.5 or 8 shot dribble into the action of your 97 while your loading it can REALLY jam things up

I use Clays or Red Dot, both work really well and you can replicate Winchester lites easily

I use AA hulls mainly because I shoot a double and they shuck easier, STS work just as well but are harder to come by around here.

I never saw much difference in wads at cowboy yardages, the one thing I will say is once you choose a wad stay with it because even changing brands sometimes will cause you issues with the crimp settings

Winchester, Remington and Federal all seem to seat the same and are “close in performance” Cheddites however don’t seem to fit in the AA hulls the same.

As far as where to get products I would say anywhere you can find ‘em ! In the past I have use Ballistics Products for a lot of my shotshell reloading but things are tight.   Good luck and have fun

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Missed one big item, make sure you get a good shotshell reloading manual, just like metallic cartridges you can’t just use whatever you want without consequences !!!

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here's a twist on12 ga CAS shotgun loads

 

due to multiple surgeries on rotator cuff (+ the doc said there was no way to repair any additional damage :o)  I have gone to ½ oz shot with a piece of foam backer rod (½ inch long x 5/8 dia--get it at home depot) for filler.  

 

that with a very light powder charge of Red Dot and a heavy SxS (dead mule added to hole in rear of stock) pretty much removes all recoil

 

best part is they have no trouble with my club's KDs

 

 

backer rod: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-5-8-in-x-20-ft-Polyurethane-Caulk-Saver-C23H/202262332  

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8 hours ago, Skullbone Willie said:

1 I would start with a MEC 600 

2. At the range we shoot 7 1/2, 8, or 9 is good

3 I load 14 gr of Clays, Claybuster 7/8 oz wad which give me 980 fps. 
4 STS and AA’s are the best.

5 7/8oz Silver Claybuster for me

6 Cheddites are hard to beat. 
Graf and Sons, Ballistic Products are two. Good Luck

This, and I use #8 shot. I like the STS hulls over the new AA. The old AA hulls are nice too.

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I know a Cowboy shooter here who used 9 grains of Red Dot with 7/8 oz shot for many years, but a few years back, bumped it up to 10 grains like H. K. Uriah is using. Maybe he finally got a wad stuck in the barrel. You could actually see the shot ball going downrange. :lol:

 

Cowboy Action & Wild Bunch are the only shotgun shooting I do, so a Lee Load-All has sufficed for 30 years. I use 12 grains Red Dot with 7/8 oz shot, AA or STS hulls, most any wad I happen upon, and any ol' 209 primer. If I'm using a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz wad, I'll pinch off a piece of plastic packing peanut to top off the shot column with so the crimp doesn't collapse inward.

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1 hour ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

 

Howdy

 

I have been loading all my CAS shotgun loads with Black Powder for many years, but I started out loading with Smokeless a bazillion years ago.

 

Yes, wad choice is very important.

 

Get yourself a reloading manual from one of the powder manufacturers. I started out many years ago with a manual from Alliant. This particular manual is only going to feature powders made by Alliant, such as Red Dot, Blue Dot, Unique, and American Select to name a few.

 

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

 

The first thing you MUST do is decide what hull you are going to use. Everything else in the recipe flows from the hull you choose, particularly the wad. Some wads are simply wrong for some hulls and can cause a problem.

 

Go to the guide, and select the hull you are going to use. You are going to want 12 gauge, 2 3/4" hulls. I recommend Remington STS hulls, they are the best there are. Winchester AA hulls are pretty good too, but they are no longer a one piece hull.

 

Once you have decided on a hull, choose the weight of shot you want to shoot. A lot of guys like very light loads, such as 3/4 ounce or 7/8 ounce because they will recoil less. If you up your shot charge to 1 ounce or even 1 1/8 ounces you will have more choices for recipes.

 

Click on the weight of shot you want and the hull you are going to use and a bazillion choices will appear. Choose the recipe with a the wad you can find. When I was loading Smokeless shotgun shells for Trap I used Remington STS hulls and Remington Figure 8 wads or the Claybuster equivalent. I started out with Red Dot, but Red Dot burns kind of dirty and was fouling the semi-auto shotgun I was using at the time. I solved the dirty powder problem with Clays, which is not made by Alliant, but Alliant makes a powder called Clay Dot which is just as clean as Clays. American Select burns nice and clean too.

 

But for CAS, how clean the powder burns should not be an issue as we are not shooting semi-auto shotguns that may malfunction with dirty loads. A pump or SXS will work fine with any powder. Choose your recipe based on what you can find. Be sure to check out Claybuster wads, who make knockoffs of all the popular wads.

 

http://www.claybusterwads.com/

 

 

As for a press, I started loading for Trap on my trusty old MEC Jr. The MEC Jr is a single stage press, meaning you move one shell at a time from station to station. I could only turn out about 4 boxes an hour with my MEC Jr. As you can see, I still use it for my black powder shotgun shells.

 

pmvlMAf7j

 

 

 

P.S. Good luck fining components these days. Years ago we could find once fired STS or AA shells, often at a Trap club. Those days are long gone. I am still using about 1,000 once fired STS hulls that I bought years ago. The green ones in this photo. Shot size does not matter for CAS, 7 1/2, 8, or 9 are fine for what we do.

 

^^^^THIS^^^^

 

Buy a reloading manual for shotshells and read it. The Lyman shotshell books are a good choice. 

 

Loading shotshells is more complicated than cartridges because your choice of components has a much greater impact. First is the stack height. This is the total height of of the powder charge, wad and shot. Different hulls have different interior dimensions. The load that works in one hull may not work in a different brand of hull. 

The reason stack height is important is that if it is too tall or too short you cannot properly crimp the shell and  shot may leak out. One piece of shot in the action can ruin your day. Unlike pistol primers there is a significant difference in shotgun primers from brand to brand. Wads are NOT interchangeable unless the manufacturer specifically states otherwise. Wad design can have a big impact on the chamber pressure a given load developes.

 

Next we tend to shoot light loads but be aware that shotguns are LOW pressure firearms and the margin of error is significantly less than for cartridge guns. Experiment at your own peril.

 

Keep in mind that just because someone else's load works in their firearm it may not be safe in your firearm. Before you deviate from published loads you need to understand the ramifications of doing so.

 

 

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When you're at a match ask around on who loads shotgun shells. Try some of their shells and find a recipe that you like. I, like a lot of others in CAS,  shoot 14 gns of Clays or Red Dot. 7/8 oz (#7,#7.5,#8) shot, Claybuster Lightning wad and either a Remington or Cheddite 209. I use Gun Club hulls brcause I can get them free and I can load them 5-6 times with my loader with great results, but I use STS hulls for big matches. IMO they are the best for our game but difficult to come by and more pricy. 

 

My practice load is the same load except 3/4oz shot and the pink Claybuster 3/4oz wads. 

 

Also see what they're loading on and try some different machines if possible. Single stage the RCBS mini grand is awesome but I've been looking for another one for over a year with no luck. I have a MEC 600 Jr. They're regularly available and make a nice shell.  Progressives are awesome but expensive. If time and volume are important then look into those. If not then a single stage will do you just fine. Also remember what you're looking to do. If you want a perfect size and crimp cause you are looking for a repetitive shuck to save a tenth of a second or are you shooting hard core BP where you're having to pull the shells out no matter what. That will make a difference in what machine you use. 

 

JEL

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I started on a used MEC 650 - but it had not sizing station, so I moved to a used MEC 762r Grabber - got it for dirt cheap - probably 20 years old but works.  it has a colet sizing die so I don't have to use a separate sizer.

Cheddite primers are currently available.

 

I load 14.5 grains of Clays under 7/8 oz of 7.5/8 mixed reclaimed shot in Winchester AA hulls with gray claybuster wads

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If you are going to load just for competition you will be fine with the 600 jr. If you are going to hunt consider a Steelmaster. I use a 3.5 inch Steelmaster with a kit that allows me to load either 3 inch or 2.75inch shells. For powder find one that is available locally and gives you the lowest grains per load for the velocity and weight you want to run.  Use Claybuster wads. Hope this helps

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Switched from mec Jr to Lee loadable, easy to use, fast. 

 

7.6 or 8 shot , which ever i can get

 

shells dont matter to me, i get used 00 Buck from police range. 

 

Load at the high end of holy black

 

Claybusters or whatever

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just stated loading SG this year on a Hornady 366 bought from a coworker that shot a lot of trap previously.  Luckily he set me up with everything needed plus a lot more.  For a great resource... check guns unlimited in Omaha. Ron was a wealth of info as I started. I currently run AA hulls with 16.5gn of titegroup powder and 1oz of 7.5 shot. It has slightly more thump than the Winchester AA Low recoil/low noise shells, but not noticeable during a match.

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On 9/21/2022 at 11:41 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

MEC 600jr press.

12ga, 17gn of Unique under 7/8-1 1/8 oz of shot.

Lumpy you got a top secret supplier for Unique. None of my usual suppliers have had any sine covid. Ended up getting long shot for my model 24 win 16 gauge. No universal either 

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2 hours ago, Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 said:

Lumpy you got a top secret supplier for Unique. None of my usual suppliers have had any sine covid. Ended up getting long shot for my model 24 win 16 gauge. No universal either 

I stocked up on components when I heard Joey was run'n for office, sure glad I did.

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You can get a Lee Load All 2 for under $100

17 grs of Clays 1 Oz of 7 1/2 shot. The LEE is kinda slow but it works just fine. Takes me about 1/2 hour to load 25-30 rounds. They come out great!!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/21/2022 at 9:54 PM, Vail Vigilante said:

Above there was some talk about a little hole you get when your crimp sometimes. To seal up the hole place a cheerio on the shot before you crimp. It sounds strange. Learned it from a old timer. Works like a dream.

When you posted this, my first thought was that I eat Cheerios so I have them handy.  In the last couple weeks I decided to drop my BP shotshell loads from 1 1/8 oz of shot to 1 oz, so I used a cheerio on top of each.  I know other folks have used other fillers, but this was easy and works fine. :)

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MEC Sizemaster, Remington hull, any 209 primer, 13.4 Clays, Claybuster grey 7/8 oz. wads, 7/8 oz. shot. A shell sizer/checker is popular today. I find the Remington hulls do not need it as much as Winchester AAs. Claybuster Lightning (white, 7/8 oz.) wads work also.

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2 minutes ago, Go West said:

MEC Sizemaster, Remington hull, any 209 primer, 13.4 Clays, Claybuster grey 7/8 oz. wads, 7/8 oz. shot.

Should work well, I use the same, but go 14gr. of powder. 

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3 hours ago, Go West said:

MEC Sizemaster, Remington hull, any 209 primer, 13.4 Clays, Claybuster grey 7/8 oz. wads, 7/8 oz. shot. A shell sizer/checker is popular today. I find the Remington hulls do not need it as much as Winchester AAs. Claybuster Lightning (white, 7/8 oz.) wads work also.

 

3 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Should work well, I use the same, but go 14gr. of powder. 

 

Very similar to the load I worked up for my late wife. Instead of Clays I use 13 grains of 700X

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Years ago I loaded some, AA hulls, Federal primer, 14.5 to 15gr Clays, 7/8 oz of 7.5 or 8 shot with a AA gray wad.  Then I just bought LNLR AA's for many years until the recent shortage and price jump.  Last year I started reloading again, same recipe except now using WST and Cheddite primers.  Started with 15.0 gr WST then dropped to 14.4 gr (that's what the bushings I had threw).  They feel like LNLR.  I know many use the Remington hulls but I use STS and Nitro hulls for BP, so stick with AA for smokeless.  This is all with Lee LoadAlls, one for BP (dip the powder) and one for smokeless, because I use more shot in the BP hulls.

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i only load for cowboy - i started with a hornady 366 progressive but im using a single stage MEC now as we dont shoot as often as i used to , ive been reloading with 3/4 oz reclaimed lead it works just fine , i used federal premium cases as thats what i could get at the local range in quantity 'once fired'  ive used most everyones 209s but there is one that doesnt work as well [chedite i think] a tad oversized , 

 

i was also loading paper at one time they did not work out as well either , absorb moisture and stick in even a slicked gun , 

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For Cowboy the Mec 600 is super reliable, I always use reclaimed shot,any 209 primer I have will end up getting used, wads much the same anything I have at hand will do the job [ just gotta' use the right one to suit the straight or tapered hulls ]..presently I use the old Win AA  hulls with 13 grains Clays / 7/8 shot.

Experiment a bit & once you have a load your happy with....bobs ya' uncle'

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