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Powder recommendations for 45 Colt


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Been using unique in my 73 rifle in 45 colt.  Fouling on the bolt and in the action seems to build up fairly quickly, way lots faster than unique in my 357 rifle.  I know that it's the nature of the beast for the 45 cartridge but was wondering if any of y'all have come across a powder that doesn't foul quite as bad as unique.  I use this for wild bunch and it's running a power factor of approx. 167 already so "add more powder" isn't really what I'm looking for.  :huh: If any of y'all have come across a powder that really works for you I would sure like to hear about it.  Thanks, Brushy. 

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As you apparently know, the fouling is a result of Blow-By.  Every powder you use in the .45 case is going to foul.  If you want the rifle to run clean, you will need to anneal your cases.  The "Add More Powder" and "Bigger Bullets" suggestions will NOT eliminate the Blow-By.

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Unique doesn't build up pressure very quick.   TiteGroup will, and so will WST.   Both of those will give you higher pressure that makes it EASIER to get cases to seal.

 

The SAAMI chamber specs are huge for the .45 Colt, in deference to old Single Actions from before 1900.   And modern sizing dies are made real tight - sizing the whole case down to 0.473" to hold onto jacketed bullets..  So the case has to flex from 0.473" to 0.480" every firing.  With low pressure loads like we run, the case never fully flexes to seal the chamber, unless you either anneal or quit sizing the case so much.

 

What REALLY works for me is the Redding two-ring carbide sizer die.  It allows you to leave the lower 2/3 of the case at almost full diameter, and size just the neck so it holds the bullet firmly.  Put on a firm roll crimp, use a faster burning powder, and you can run 12 or 18 stages without fouling up a .45 Colt Uberti rifle.

 

That Redding die reduced case splitting to almost nothing, and reduced powder fouling too.  I run .45 Colt in my rifles for WB, and for Cowboy too.

 

HOWEVER, I see Redding has recently discontinued this die (at least for now), probably due to small sales volume.   I see one listed on EBay though.

 

That is TOO BAD, as this is one of the best dies I have ever used for .45 Colt. 

 

You can simulate the sizing action of this, by adjusting your conventional sizer die up, and only size the top third of the case.   Avoid running other folk's brass though, if you decide to go this route, as you can find REALLY large fired cases laying on the range from the shooters who hot-rod .45 Colt loads    :blink:

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

As you apparently know, the fouling is a result of Blow-By.  Every powder you use in the .45 case is going to foul.  If you want the rifle to run clean, you will need to anneal your cases.  The "Add More Powder" and "Bigger Bullets" suggestions will NOT eliminate the Blow-By.

 

This topic does come up often, and the issue is blow by, caused because the case is not sealing the chamber. It isn't expanding enough to create a good seal. 

 

I have a Uberti '73, in 45 Colt and am well aware of the issue. Some of the problem is inherent to the caliber, there is a fairly large clearance built into the design, IOW, chamber minimum is larger than cartridge maximum by a whisker over 0.006". Add to this the fact that Uberti chambers in their '73s are not cut to minimum. Max chamber is larger than minimum by an additional 0.004", and ammunition can be 0.006" smaller than maximum. Suffice it to say, there is a bit of gap to seal.

 

Already stated is the suggestion to anneal the case, about half way down the case wall should be sufficient. I don't have any experience with annealing the 45 case, I've annealed brass in the past and decided to pass on the process unless absolutely necessary. 

 

I decided to approach the problem from another direction. The first factor is pressure, more pressure will help expand and seal the chamber. On the negative, the more pressure you have, blow by increases, you need an even better seal. Clean smooth brass will seal easier, and it helps if the chamber is smooth and clean. Those are easy tasks, and don't take special tools or a lot of time.   

 

Is there a way to increase the pressure without increasing velocity? The best way to do it is to use Trail Boss. TB produces high pressure for the velocity it makes. You are using Unique, there are faster burning powders you can use. A heavier bullet will increase pressure and have a less velocity than a lighter bullet will, for the same powder charge. I use a 250 grain bullet, with 4.5 to 5.5 grains of fast powder. I tried Unique but at 6.6 grains velocity was about 800 fps in a revolver and ignition was erratic, poor Es/Sd. You can easily go down 100 fps with a faster powder and still get good numbers, Es/Sd.

 

The other part of the issue, the gap between the size of the ammunition and the size of the chamber can be mitigated somewhat. Dillon carbide sizing dies tend to be a bit on the small size. It doesn't help that the bullet diameter for the 45 Colt has deceased for 0.456/0454" to about 0.452". I use 0.451" bullets for my 45 Colts. I have a LEE FL die that sizes a bit larger than the Dillon, and I use it. I also neck size only, IOW, I only size about half way down the case with the carbide sizer. With the LEE I had to buy a longer decapping rod, one from their universal decapping die works well. In the last stage of the press i use a LEE FCD (Factory Crimp Die) to size the rest of the body of the case. The LEE FCD reduces the body to slightly less than cartridge max of 0.480". If you are so inclined, you could also use a steel FL die, as it is tapered, and the body is sized less at the base than at the mouth. I don't much like to lube cases, so that option was ignored. 

 

There is still some blow by, but it is noticeably reduced. 

 

Update: Garrison Joe posted as I was typing, Read his post, he knows his onions. 

 

BB

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1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Unique doesn't build up pressure very quick.   TiteGroup will, and so will WST.   Both of those will give you higher pressure that makes it EASIER to get cases to seal.

 

The SAAMI chamber specs are huge for the .45 Colt, in deference to old Single Actions from before 1900.   And modern sizing dies are made real tight - sizing the whole case down to 0.473" to hold onto jacketed bullets..  So the case has to flex from 0.473" to 0.480" every firing.  With low pressure loads like we run, the case never fully flexes to seal the chamber, unless you either anneal or quit sizing the case so much.

 

What REALLY works for me is the Redding two-ring carbide sizer die.  It allows you to leave the lower 2/3 of the case at almost full diameter, and size just the neck so it holds the bullet firmly.  Put on a firm roll crimp, use a faster burning powder, and you can run 12 or 18 stages without fouling up a .45 Colt Uberti rifle.

 

That Redding die reduced case splitting to almost nothing, and reduced powder fouling too.  I run .45 Colt in my rifles for WB, and for Cowboy too.

 

HOWEVER, I see Redding has recently discontinued this die (at least for now), probably due to small sales volume.   I see one listed on EBay though.

 

That is TOO BAD, as this is one of the best dies I have ever used for .45 Colt. 

 

You can simulate the sizing action of this, by adjusting your conventional sizer die up, and only size the top third of the case.   Avoid running other folk's brass though, if you decide to go this route, as you can find REALLY large fired cases laying on the range from the shooters who hot-rod .45 Colt loads    :blink:

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

It is the best dies I have used for 45 Colt! and others I bought, been using it for about six years now and It cut my fouling in my rifle by 50% or more and 75% in my pistols. I have these dies for 45ACP, 357 and 40 SW too. This die will make your brass last longer because it doesn't over work the brass! I have 45 Colt Star brass with sixteen loadings on them and I have had no splits yet! V.D.

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2 hours ago, Brushy Creek Bill, SASS # 49466 said:

Been using unique in my 73 rifle in 45 colt.  Fouling on the bolt and in the action seems to build up fairly quickly, way lots faster than unique in my 357 rifle.  I know that it's the nature of the beast for the 45 cartridge but was wondering if any of y'all have come across a powder that doesn't foul quite as bad as unique.  I use this for wild bunch and it's running a power factor of approx. 167 already so "add more powder" isn't really what I'm looking for.  :huh: If any of y'all have come across a powder that really works for you I would sure like to hear about it.  Thanks, Brushy. 

Can’t make a silk purse out a pig’s ear just as you can’t eliminate fouling shooting 45 Colt in a rifle BUT you can reduce it.

 

Use a 250 grain bullet.

Load at towards the top of the powder manufacturer’s maximum.

A very good case crimp.

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In answer to the original question, I have used Winchester 231 ( and its twin HP38)

in 45 Coltfor several years.I don't plan on changing powders unless it becomes unavailable in the future.

As posted previously, the secret to reducing blowby is to anneal your cases.

Choctaw 

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A couple pards of mine use Clays with no problem. Another uses TiteGroup also no problem. 
I used Clays as well a long time ago when I was shooting.45 Colt. 

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I use Clays or Clay Dot with no issues.

5.2 gr. under a 200gr. Coated RNFP for 45 colt

 

4.2gr. under a 160gr. Coated RNFP for C45S

 

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Aw Schucks  :o

 

I forgot the "other" fix.  44-40 cases.  if you run 44-40 cases carefully thru 45 Colt resize and expander die, then seat your 45 bullet of choice, the case will "fire form" to 45 Colt.  The thinner neck area will expand to seal the chamber and eliminate Blow-By.  Before "first firing" the cartridges will look a little wonky.

 

Annealing straight wall pistol cases doesn't "mitigate" Blow-By, Annealing eliminates Blow-By.  Same same running 44-40 brass.  I run either 44-40 brass, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44 Spl and 44 Russian, shooting APP and light bullets with NO Blow-By.  Rifles run as clean as any of the "dash" calibers.

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I've used clays, unique and  app, with good results I've also used real  black and can get through it  match with little more than a spritz of balistol in both mt 73 and 66. Yes not as clean as a bottle neck rifle but not as bad as everyone  makes it out to be.

Rafe

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Shoot slower... working the action fast sucks fouling gasses out of the chamber back in the action where they adhere and gum things up. :ph34r:

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I just clean my rifles more often. That ain't all that difficult... ;)

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I looked into the Redding two ring die some time ago and availability and price were an issue. Then yesterday one popped up on a forum. Still a bit overpriced but I bought it anyway. I'm curious to find out what dimensions the ammo comes out at.

 

As far as powder choice, the 45 Colt is my last holdout on finding a powder to replace my Trail Boss load. However, because I also shoot 45 S&W Schofield, for S&G I tried some of it in my '73. Even at 1.4" they feed nicely. My plinking load is with 452AA and a Lyman 452490. a bit over 600 fps in a revolver, 750 in the rifle. Unfortunately the gas check negates it use in CAS, but it does leave the barrel lead free. 

 

Finding a keg of 452AA saved my butt this year, I used it like Franks Red Hot, in everything. 

 

I did read somewhere that using a magnum primer with Unique makes it burn cleaner. IMO, with Unique,  velocity gets a bit higher than I'd like, even at 6.5 gr it's at 800 fps.

 

BB

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I don't actually know how many loadings my Annealed Brass has gone through.  I have yet to need to re-anneal but I do have a pretty good pile.  But, no.  There is no need to re-anneal after every loading.

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For lead its Trail Boss, for jacketed I use 231.  Been using these for quite some time with great results.  I know TB seems to have gone the way of cheap gas but I do find it from time to time.

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Many moons ago, before the Redding two-ring was available, I simply "neck-sized" my 45 Colt cases. Using 5.5 grains of Titegroup, hand-cast 260 grain bullets (fairly soft ww alloy with soft lube), only sizing the portion of the case where the shank of the bullet reached, and applying a firm crimp resulted in almost no blowby in either a Marlin Cowboy or Rossi 92. Harder bullets, lighter bullets, or lower velocities resulted in sooty chambers for me, but I'm willing to bet annealing + neck sizing would do the trick.  

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I use Clays, in part because I found Unique to be dirtier than Clays. But I don't anneal and I'm not getting blow-by. My load is 5.5 grains Clays and 230 grain cast RNFP. (the SAECO Cowboy mould -- I don't know if it's still available).

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