Tennessee Snuffy Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Folks I have a pistol caliber carbine, 45 acp with 16” barrel. After shooting about 15 rounds, I have noticed the first couple of inches of the barrel is badly fouled but it is not leaded up. It takes about 20 with various solvents and brass brushes to clean up the mess. I am shooting a 200 grain RNFP lead bullets (just like I have shot for the past 10 years in my cowboy guns) with 5.1 grains of Nitro 100 and 3.8 grains of Clay Dot. Both of these powders foul very badly. If I use 4.3 grains of Red Dot, fouling is much less. Any ideas as to what may be causing the fouling problems? Would a tighter crimp help? What you think? Thanks Tennessee Snuffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Patootie, SASS #35798 Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 I wonder if plated or jacketed bullets would help? I am going to try WST since I use that for 45 Colt. Horace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 Try a soft bullet, sized ..001" larger than your barrels Grove diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 Had same problems in my 1911 pistols. The fouling really IS lead, just very thin coats of it. If it were simply powder fouling, it would clean out immediately with any good powder solvent. Much more leading occurs in the grooves than on the lands. It comes from gas cutting of the bullet sides because the bullet is not sealing into the grooves fast enough. Farther along the barrel, the bullet finally expands enough to stop the gas cutting, and thus there is no fouling out there. The Red Dot load is producing more pressure than your Clay Dot load, and that helps a hard bullet upset enough to fill grooves. Go to a Brinnell Hardness of about 9 on your bullets. Most commercial casters are using a 6-2 alloy that has a hardness of about 15 BNH. Use a bullet matching or 0.001" over the barrel's groove diameter. It will go away. Desperado Bullets and a few other casters can provide softer bullets. A poly (plastic) coated bullet will reduce (but probably not completely clean up) the fouling. It's the better fit of bullet to barrel that helps the most. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 Quote Would a tighter crimp help? Can't crimp a .45 auto cartridge more than just tapering the mouth back to the case diameter. If you roll it any, you loose the headspace location (the mouth of the case!) That can lead to rounds going in chamber too far and not firing, and even no longer reachable by the extractor, so you have a loaded round stuck in chamber. No, this is NOT a crimp problem, it's a bullet fit in grooves of barrel problem. Some carbine type guns might have a sloppy, oversize barrel that needs a 0.452" or even larger bullet! You won't know unless you slug the barrel. The .45 auto is a much different cartridge than Cowboy rimmed cartridges! A great powder for .45 auto is Win Super Target (WST). Very accurate in many guns. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 They do a pretty good job of explaining bullet obturation https://missouribullet.com/technical.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 On 9/18/2022 at 5:55 PM, Tennessee Snuffy said: Folks I have a pistol caliber carbine, 45 acp with 16” barrel. After shooting about 15 rounds, I have noticed the first couple of inches of the barrel is badly fouled but it is not leaded up. It takes about 20 with various solvents and brass brushes to clean up the mess. I am shooting a 200 grain RNFP lead bullets (just like I have shot for the past 10 years in my cowboy guns) with 5.1 grains of Nitro 100 and 3.8 grains of Clay Dot. Both of these powders foul very badly. If I use 4.3 grains of Red Dot, fouling is much less. Any ideas as to what may be causing the fouling problems? Would a tighter crimp help? What you think? Thanks Tennessee Snuffy. I offer 200gr RNFP bullet lubed Or Hi-Tek coated sized .454 just for the situation you describe. Let me know if I can help. These are hardcast bullets. Hugs! Scarlett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Dan Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 I had a severe leading problem with my 1911s. I use 200g high tech coated bullets. Backed off the powder charge from 4.5g to 4.0g of titegroup and no leading. You may just be running them too hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 That 4.0 grains TG load will not make the WB power factor in most 1911s. Probably is a nice soft target load, though. I'd guess you don't have a bullet that is large enough diameter. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Unless you have a real problem with your barrel a properly sized hitech coated bullet should work great! Even at higher velocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 Snuffy, I don't know the answer to your question, BUT...... try using CFE Pistol powder and see if that helps. I use it in .45 acp, .460 Rowland and 10mm with good, consistent performance and haven't noticed any fouling problems. CFE Pistol is a Hodgdon powder. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Mercy, SASS #29066 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 Looking at the Hodgdon load data, you are beyond maximum +P loads with Nitro 100 (4.9 was the highest I saw), and I can't find any load book data for Clay Dot. That could be because Alliant hasn't gotten around to handgun load development with it, or because they tried it and had bad results. And I will echo what others have said about bullets...hard cast, bevel-base bullets with "crayon" lube are the worst offenders as far as leading. Softer, flat-base designs with softer lubes have a much lower chance of leaving behind lead deposits at most pistol/PCC velocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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