Should State matches give preference to State residents?

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

I'm sure this has been addressed at some point in the past, but I got to thinking about this after something a friend said about a certain State Championship being likely to sell out if it was held at one of the venues vying for it.  Should state residents get a chance to sign up for their state match before non-residents?  Say given a set amount of time before it's opened to everyone else?  FYI, this is not a suggestion or a desire.  It's just food for thought.

[Chantry]

I would say no.  It should probably continue to be whoever gets the application in first.*

 

There may come a time in the future when there won't be enough state residents to fill up the match and  if that happens, there is a good chance the out of staters who had been denied entry in the past won't bother to send in an application.

 

 

*There was a period for the NY State shoot you had to overnight your application if you wanted to get in, it was filling up in less then a week.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy Possum.

 

Right now, my thinking is that first come, first served.

But, I'm eager to read the post on this thread to see if my thinking is tainted.

 

Good topic.

 

..........Widder

 

[Itchy Trigger]

I may be in the minority here, but I would say yes as long as it is a reasonable time frame. If not, then is it truly a State Championship or just a larger annual claiming to be a state championship?

 

Give in state a one-week pre-registration period then open it to the masses.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

20 minutes ago, Itchy Trigger said:

If not, then is it truly a State Championship or just a larger annual claiming to be a state championship?

 

In something related to that, I once shot at the Nevada State Championship.   I am from Massachusetts.   Someone said something to me to the effect of, "How can someone from back East with the Nevada state match?"   My response was "Don't worry.   I won't!"   

 

At one of the big matches I shoot, the MA/CT/RI Tristate, the Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island winners are all recognized, as well as the "Overall" winner.   We also get a few people from the rest of New England and even farther away sometimes.  I don't think they can win one of the three state championships, but I believe they are eligible to win the overall spot.

As far as I know, there is no restriction on who can enter or when.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

I know most state matches don’t fill up these days and I enjoy shooting in other states.  However, personally, I wouldn’t want to deny a resident of a state the chance to shoot in their own state match.

[Itchy Trigger]

4 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

In something related to that, I once shot at the Nevada State Championship.   I am from Massachusetts.   Someone said something to me to the effect of, "How can someone from back East with the Nevada state match?"   My response was "Don't worry.   I won't!"   

 

As far as I know, most if not all State Championships give out an Overall and an in-state recognition of some sort. I was referring more to events that fill up very quickly, and then some of the state's best (at least for a specific day) may not have had a chance to register. I don't think that in-state should have the option of registering late, but I don't see the problem with giving them a short pre-register period (i.e. a week).

 

Another option would be to give them preference on the waiting list, but I don't think that would be fair.

[Cholla]

I think it should be open to state residents first, then open to non-residents. It is frustrating that certain state matches fill up and state residents don't get in, then a month before the match spots open up because someone can't afford the trip across the country. That late in the game working folks may not have time to get things in order to take time off for the match, or may have committed to some other family vacation by then.

[Hoss]

I’d give a month to in-state residents to get their entry in. 
I’d accept out of state entries during that time, with the understanding that state residents get first preference.  After 1 month I’d take all entries on first come-first served basis. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

YES.  And only those residence of the "State" receive "State Champion" recognition.  Anyone can be the "Overall" winner but state residences get the Big Bag of Marbles.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I don't care for the idea that my money is less important than shooter X's because of where shooter X lives.

 

Our matches are not beholden to qualifiers or handicapping.

No category gets a head start or bonus time.

Signing up should be no different.

 

If you wish to attend a match - send in your money when registration opens.

In state competitors already have the edge of shorter mailing distance - that is plenty.

 

Lastly - IF a shoot said "in state get priority", then filled up and THEN subsequently found themselves with cancellations and were now soliciting shooters?

 

I would happily share my opinion that if my money was not good enough before - you don't need it now.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

I view this question from an economic viewpoint and not from one of fairness.  An annual match has many fixed costs that must be covered by entry fees.  A sponsoring club does not want to turn away or restrict applications - they need the money.  My home club just was approved for the 2023 state SASS match.  If our contract restricted entries from neighboring states we would not have applied.  The risk to our treasury would be unacceptable.  The current system of recognizing match and state winners works.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Another thought to sweeten this conversation:

 

Example:  Lets say 'The Cracker Crew' has supported the Texas State match for 5 years or more, paid their money

and were VERY WELCOME participants.   Now, in 2023, they are not welcome because they live in Florida.

Makes no sense to me.

 

Many 'Out of State' shooters visit MANY of the state matches across the country.   They buy motor homes, big trucks, etc.....

to travel and shoot with friends, year after year.     Don't create a new rule or guideline to forbid those folks the opportunity

to play on your playground.

 

Just 2 more cents of my thinking!

 

..........Widder

 

[Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118]

I have advocated that annual matches like Bordertown should give AZ residents perhaps 10 days advance notice to get their registrations in. The match usually sells out. Then open it up to the rest of the shooters who want to shoot the match. It is an Arizona State Championship!

I think that is a fair way to handle it.

 

My view from my saddle,

 

TB

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Thinking about it, if you like to go to "big" shoots that last for 2 or 3 days, have side matches, and other related "events" they are more than likely state championships, regionals, or what have you.   

Since I've been in this game, I have been to the State Championship matches for NH/Vermont, Mass/Conn/RI, Delaware/Maryland, Nevada, Michigan, and End of the Trail.   Based on the fact that I am from Massachusetts, I'd hate to think I was only eligible to go to the TriState and EoT.  I like going to the big shoots.

 

Heck, there's a thread on the Wire right now about how Bordertown, the Arizona state championship, has open slots due to cancellations.  That's supposed to be a great shoot that fills up fast.

Not sure what all of this means.   Just offering facts.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I like how Bordertown (AZ State) handles it.  Applications become available to anyone regardless of where they live.  It's faster for in-state folks to send them (drive them) in, so mostly in-state folks get in.   Awards clearly differentiate between the "winner" and the State Champion.   The State Champion is a nicer award, usually.  And in-staters can win both awards!

 

Like that.  Even if I AM an out-of-stater.

GJ

[Eyesa Horg]

55 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I’d give a month to in-state residents to get their entry in. 
I’d accept out of state entries during that time, with the understanding that state residents get first preference.  After 1 month I’d take all entries on first come-first served basis. 

+1

[Black Angus McPherson]

2 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

  Should state residents get a chance to sign up for their state match before non-residents?  Say given a set amount of time before it's opened to everyone else? 

 

 

 

Yes

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

How many State Match clubs are gonna tell Deuce or Lassiter that they are not eligible to visit their clubs

for a State match?

 

Or will clubs pick and choose WHO can/can't attend based on popularity?
 

How about those valuable out of state vendors?    You gonna restrict folks like Scarlet Darlin from the

Carolina's from visiting the Louisiana State match and bringing her vendor services?

 

Folks better be cautious in creating these guidelines because the situation it causes could snowball into

becoming a future disaster for some State matches.

 

..........Widder

 

[July Smith]

I think it should stay as a first come first serve.  All the bigger matches I am aware of also have a call/waiting list to draw on should there be any cancellations. 

 

I also think it is odd how SASS hands out different buckles depending on if you are a state or or non-state resident.  Wasn't it a few years ago a top shooter from Canada won a big match and there was a bit of controversy/discussion about giving him the 1st place buckle?  IMHO if the top shooter at a competition happens to be from another state or country it doesn't really matter because they were the top shooter in that state at the time of the competition.     

[Krazy Kajun]

2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

How many State Match clubs are gonna tell Deuce or Lassiter that they are not eligible to visit their clubs

for a State match?

 

Or will clubs pick and choose WHO can/can't attend based on popularity?
 

How about those valuable out of state vendors?    You gonna restrict folks like Scarlet Darlin from the

Carolina's from visiting the Louisiana State match and bringing her vendor services?

 

Folks better be cautious in creating these guidelines because the situation it causes could snowball into

becoming a future disaster for some State matches.

 

..........Widder

 

I hope Scarlett makes it to the LA State match this year....a homesick Kajun on his way back home from Land Run will be there shooting the match to welcome her.  Besides that I'm hoping ole @Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 will let this out-of-stater shoot in Sorrento cuz I knowed he ain't skeered of no newbie wannabe GF! 

 

Kajun

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

1 hour ago, July Smith said:

I think it should stay as a first come first serve.  All the bigger matches I am aware of also have a call/waiting list to draw on should there be any cancellations. 

 

I also think it is odd how SASS hands out different buckles depending on if you are a state or or non-state resident.  Wasn't it a few years ago a top shooter from Canada won a big match and there was a bit of controversy/discussion about giving him the 1st place buckle?  IMHO if the top shooter at a competition happens to be from another state or country it doesn't really matter because they were the top shooter in that state at the time of the competition.     

They can win overall, just can’t be State/Regional champion.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

7 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:

I hope Scarlett makes it to the LA State match this year....a homesick Kajun on his way back home from Land Run will be there shooting the match to welcome her.  Besides that I'm hoping ole @Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 will let this out-of-stater shoot in Sorrento cuz I knowed he ain't skeered of no newbie wannabe GF! 

 

Kajun

I have no say at Sorrento, but I'm certain you are more than welcome!  I, also, hope Scarlett can make it.

 

I'm not saying I want to limit anyone from attending any match, especially not vendors.  As I said previously, I only brought it up for discussion purposes and can see both sides.  I think the system we've always used works quite well.  However, it does seem like there are quite a few who feel it needs to change somewhat.  So is there a way to have cake and eat it too?

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

4 hours ago, Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 said:

I have advocated that annual matches like Bordertown should give AZ residents perhaps 10 days advance notice to get their registrations in. The match usually sells out. Then open it up to the rest of the shooters who want to shoot the match. It is an Arizona State Championship!

I think that is a fair way to handle it.

 

My view from my saddle,

 

TB

Are you under the impression that it is AZ residents selling out Bordertown?

Bordertown sells out NOT because it is the Arizona State Shoot but because of the type of shoot it is.

 

One only has to go back a few years (few years might be longer than that - might even go back to Tucson days) and examine the incident when Bordertown changed up their shoot to different than the expected BIG and CLOSE.

 

When we asked why - we were told it's the AZ State shoot and should be setup as a challenging "Championship" shoot - our overwhelming response was, "We didn't come because it was the AZ state shoot - we come because it is Bordertown."

 

The shoot failed to sell out the next year.

(one of the few times I am aware of that happening)

 

Good lucking filling ANY shoot thinking that home grown shooters are enough to replace those of us who will be insulted and find something else to do.

[Black Hills Barb]

No!  Registration opens and everyone has an equal opportunity to attend.  

[Captain Bill Burt]

If ya snooze ya lose. Get your app in early or stay home.

[Arkansas Harper SASS #33169]

Just a question on my part, why is the ability to WIN mentioned so many times??  I go to big shoots (out of state) with the expectation of having a great time.  I don't select matches based on WINNING.

 

 

Arkansas Harper  33169

[Dream Chaser, SASS #79316]

I am with Turquoise Bill on this one.

[Chantry]

I suspect if a match starts giving preferences to who it allows to attend, be it a state resident over an out of state resident or famous shooter A versus unknown Shooter B, that match will see a significant drop in attendance that they won't get back.

 

And I doubt any club would be so stupid as to prevent an out of state vendor who also shoots from competing in a match

 

And how many people will no longer get a chance to shoot with their friends to don't meet match preferences?

 

Will some vendors decide not to attend a match that has entry preferences?

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

OOPS!!  PARDON ME!!  WARNING WILL ROBINSON.  I miss-read the OP.  I thought the preference for taking home the Big Bag of Marbles.  Just re-read and discovered the point of contention was preference for Registration/Attendance.  SO:

 

NO FREEKING WAY!!  Attendees as applications are received, REGARDLESS!! 

[July Smith]

15 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

They can win overall, just can’t be State/Regional champion.

Right, that's my point.  Seems a little odd to me.  I understand 1st, 2nd, 3rd for each category.  I understand top overall.  Sort of understand having a top cowboy/girl.  But an award that that depends on being local or not seems odd to me. 

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

1 hour ago, July Smith said:

Right, that's my point.  Seems a little odd to me.  I understand 1st, 2nd, 3rd for each category.  I understand top overall.  Sort of understand having a top cowboy/girl.  But an award that that depends on being local or not seems odd to me. 

The match is to determine the best shooter of each category FROM that state or region.  You cannot be the best Arkansas Gunfighter if you are from Arizona.  However, you can be the best gunfighter at that match no matter where you are from.  Therefore, the Arkansas State Gunfighter Champion must be from ARKANSAS.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

3 hours ago, July Smith said:

Right, that's my point.  Seems a little odd to me.  I understand 1st, 2nd, 3rd for each category.  I understand top overall.  Sort of understand having a top cowboy/girl.  But an award that that depends on being local or not seems odd to me. 

Think about it this way...

 

Note that most "Location specific championships" ALSO have an EVENT name.

Arizona State is also known as Bordertown.

Nevada State is also known as Eldorado.

So on and so forth.

So the easiest way to think about it is that there are TWO simultaneous events taking place.

 

One event that ONLY shooters from that specific location are entered in and ONLY THEY are eligible for the LOCATION SPECIFIC awards.

AND 

Another event that ALL shooters in attendence are entered in and ALL are eligible for the EVENT SPECIFIC awards.

 

So in effect the shooters from within the location are ONLY competing against their fellow residents for LOCATION awards

while competing against ALL for EVENT awards.

 

I have won NEVADA STATE championships awards by being the highest placing Nevada resident in category while receiving a 2nd or 3rd place EVENT award for the same category.

 

I have also won 1st place EVENT awards in other states and regions and not been the LOCATION champion as I was ineligible for the LOCATION award simply because I don't live there.

 

This split eligibility means the traveling fast gun may be able to visit every LOCATION championship event and even win every overall EVENT award but cannot take the LOCATION championship away from residents.

[July Smith]

Yeah I get how it's awarded/determined, just don't understand the logic behind it.  I appreciate you all trying to explain it, but this one might be beyond me.  

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

1 minute ago, July Smith said:

Yeah I get how it's awarded/determined, just don't understand the logic behind it.  I appreciate you all trying to explain it, but this one might be beyond me.  

Ok - try this on for size.

A 25 year old man - CAN'T be the Senior Category Champion. 

No matter if he was superior or how much he may beat the top Senior by - he simply and inarguably is not eligible for that award.

We have enacted "protections" for the Senior Category to ensure the award goes to ONLY someone meeting the criteria for inclusion..

 

The LOCATION SPECIFIC championship has protections to ensure that the LOCATION award ONLY goes to someone meeting the criteria for inclusion.

 

It's just that simple.