Damned Ford engineers! (Yes this is a Ford bashing thread!)

[Clay Mosby]

Back in 2019 my son and I, thanks to an inheritance, each picked up a shiny new F-150. I got the Lariat, he picked up an XLT. We both signed up for just about every extended warranty they offered.

 

Anyway, a couple weeks ago the low pitch half of his horn assembly started dying. I finally gave up the ghost last week and now his jet black F-150 sounds like a 1970's era civic!  So he contacts the dealer. Not covered under any warranty. WHAT !?!?!?!?!?!? 

 

Okay, so what'll it cost to get it replaced? Well, they say, 1-2 hours labor @ $185/hour. Excuse me? $370 in LABOR? To Replace a Horn Assy? Anyway. the estimate is $450-$500

 

No way we said. Had son do a search on Utube, after all shouldn't be much more than a couple screws and a connector, right?

 

WRONG. 

 

In their infinite wisdom the horn assembly is hidden under a molded housing. A molded housing that is Part Of The FREAKING GRILL ASSEMBLY!! It requires special tools, and special body work skills such as knowing how and in what order to dis-assemble/re-assemble about 85% of the front grill!!

 

Well, unfortunately Jr. is going to have to [ut up with high pitch horn while he earns some extra cash. 

 

@$tge^$ns h& eid% ie&&i #$ y$uqw^i  w FORD!!

[Pat Riot]

You could always find the source of the horn

wiring and route a feed to another aftermarket horn…if it doesn’t void a warranty. 

[Cypress Sun]

You guys use the horn that much?

 

I live in the city, the only time I use the horn is to prod the idiot (texting on their cell phone) in front of me to go at the green light.

 

You could always get the bumper sticker that says "Horn broke, watch for finger".

 

For what it's worth, I'd contact Ford corporate. A three year old truck, bought brand new, should have a bumper to bumper warranty that covers everything except tires, brakes and oil changes.

[Pat Riot]

14 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

.For what it's worth, I'd contact Ford corporate. A three year old truck, bought brand new, should have a bumper to bumper warranty that covers everything except tires, brakes and oil changes.

Excellent point!

 

Ford and many of it’s dealers have been going round and round since Ford dealers have been price gouging people since CoVid kicked off. Ford is dying many of it’s own dealers and the CEO is setting up “factory direct” car and truck sales due to dealers and their bull shtuff. 
I wouldn’t doubt your dealer is playing BS games. 

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

raise a fuss with ford.

or

wire up a little air horn.

one made my mg sound like a freight train.

And I tramsferred it to other cars.

I left it on the Z.

Best

CR

 

[Alpo]

2 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

You guys use the horn that much?

I recall going to take a driver's test, and the vehicle had to be in perfect working order - lights, wipers, signals, etc.

 

The horn didn't blow. And I thought about it, and the best as I could recall, the last time I blew the horn was at a vehicle inspection. I think, in my sixty-odd years of driving, I have actually used the horn for its intended purpose maybe three or four times.

[J-BAR #18287]

I hate being stalled behind a phone user who hasn’t noticed the light has been green for a while.       My horn is exercized almost daily!

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

Dodge ain't any better. Recently had to shell out $4K to rebuild the front end on a police package Charger because the dealer said they had previously replaced a broken hood latch, which was evidence of a front end collision. They avoided my question about why they covered the latch, but not the worn out ball joints. 

[Dusty Devil Dale]

I don't know where Ford finds its engineers (or its famous "better ideas")

 

I bought a 2020 F250 Super Duty 4wd -- an engineering masterpiece.  Its bed sits so high that I (5'8") cannot reach to touch bed over the siderail or tailgate.  The open tailgate has a built-in step and pole to grip while stepping in-- except the step is still 28" off the ground-- basically useless.  I solved all of that by installing 3 drop-down steps @ $450 apiece and a drop-down running board for $1,200.

 

The engineers are master musicians!  I get five 3-note (15 total notes) very loud chimes played through all of the speakers, every time I:

 

>Open a door

 

>Turn on headlights,

 

>activate the trailer break,

 

> shift out of Park with the parking break engaged,

 

> Shift out of park with someone's seatbelt unfastened (even on my ranch where I  drive through multiple gates that have to be closed behind me -- and if I ignore the chimes, the chime enforcer gets mad and increases loudness and tempo --- AND NO, sitting on the buckled belt does not fool the wizard chimes)

 

> Whenever the windshield washer level gets low, 15 notes.

 

> whenever I remove the key before turning off headlights, 15 notes. (the lights shut off automatically after 20 seconds).

 

The list goes on and on an on.  There is never a quiet minute driving around my ranch, and the chimes are so loud they hurt my wife's ears wearing her hearing aids.  They scare away the deer every time you open a door.  And its impossible to ooen a door without all of the lights going on.

 

Then there is that expensive tailgate with the step.  It costs over $1000, so nautrally the engineers made it lockable.  In fact it locks for you automatically whenever you turn the key off, which means if you forget (which happens most every time), then to open it you have to walk back up to the cab, open the door, and press the release (and listen to 15 chimes when you open the door).  If you left the truck and forgot to press the unlock, then the next day carry something up to put in the bed, you cannot open the gate without also opening the driver door, and listening to the music.

I tell you, It's a musical symphony.  

 

Oh, and when you ask the Service people if the chimes can be disconnected or turned down, they laugh at you.  The chimes are integrally  wired through the computer controlled functions, so if disconnected, some of the engine control functions will not operate.  

--Pure wisdom, I tell you. 

 

I paid about $52k for this rolling orchestra,  but I won't be keeping it very long--- or buying another Ford.  And it's too bad, because it is a good power train and a comfortable riding vehicle. 

 

--Electronics carried way too far.

 

Oh, also, to buy a replacement fuse is $26-$41, if you are lucky enough to find one.  Why does a replacement fuse (meltable wire) need to be complex and expensive?

 

I will NEVER let go of my 2000 F150 with 244K miles on it -- (but I bet California will invent a way to tax me extra (beyond the annual registration and smog check fees) to force its demise.  

 

Do we really need all of this C**P? 

 

I wonder how much all those chime sensors cost -- both as new equipment and for repair/replacement. 

 

I think the big $$$ are now in repairs, so vehicles are being designed to maximize that profit center.  

 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

30 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

I hate being stalled behind a phone user who hasn’t noticed the light has been green for a while.       My horn is exercized almost daily!

 

It's a $350.00 ++ fine up here for "Distracted Driving" and points added to your licence, which affects your insurance rates and can result in licence suspension with you accumulate enough points.

[Warden Callaway]

Swollen nut!  Lug nuts that is.  Replaced all of them on our F150. Got a Edge so I should be pro-active and buy some aftermarket SST to have ready. 

 

 

 

[J-BAR #18287]

36 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

 

It's a $350.00 ++ fine up here for "Distracted Driving" and points added to your licence, which affects your insurance rates and can result in licence suspension with you accumulate enough points.

Never a cop around to give them a ticket, though!

[Cypress Sun]

27 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

 

It's a $350.00 ++ fine up here for "Distracted Driving" and points added to your licence, which affects your insurance rates and can result in licence suspension with you accumulate enough points.

 

They have a "distracted driving" law here also. Thing is though, they consider it a secondary violation ie-can give you a ticket only if they pull you over for something else first. I've never seen or heard of anyone giving or receiving a ticket for it.

 

The secondary violation thing is a bunch of crap, it should be a primary violation. The amount of revenue generated would be staggering and it would make the roads much safer. They did the same thing with not wearing a seatbelt but the next thing you know...they can pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt and give you a ticket...while the motorcycle rider drives by with no helmet. I've never heard of a person not wearing a seatbelt causing a crash, I've witnessed and heard of plenty of crashes caused by talking/texting/reading texts on cell phones though.

 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled "Bashing Ford Engineers" and all other car maker engineers. Truth is that if they had to work on the crap that they design, they wouldn't continue that design.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Back to the Ford bashing thread--

About 12 years ago, a contractor friend bought a new Ford F350 for his business.  It had a great feature that Ford called "No tools left behind"  A contractor could put coded electronic stickers on his tools that could be sensed by the truck computer.  So the truck WOULD NOT START unless the tools were in place.  That meant the truck had to sit in one place all day if tools were in use.  And if a tool was lost or stolen, my friend could not drive home!

 

When he told me about it, I thought it was a joke, but it was real. 

For a brief time, the Ford engineers actually wreaked this havoc on their customers, thinking it was a great sales feature.  It didn't last very long, and my friend managed to have his disconnected. But he had still been forced to spend over $1,600 for it in a purchase "package" that also contained  his low-speed rear end for towing.  To get the low rear end gearing, he had to also buy the stupid tool roundup thingy.  

[Henry T Harrison]

My wife has a 2016 Ford Escape. Just to change the battery costs $250 in labor at the dealer 

[Dantankerous]

Buy Toyota. Best truck on the road besides Peterbuilt.

 

[Warden Callaway]

When we were looking at buying a class 5 truck for our business,  Dodge 5500 and Ford F550 were two that we looked at. GM had been out of out size business at that time.  When looking at Ford,  there was so much plumbing and junk under the hood, you couldn't make out there was an engine.  I asked the salesman how do you service them.  He took me back to their garage.  They had a F350 body cut loose from frame and elevated 6' above frame and drive train.  They were changing the transmission as I remember.   

 

Dad suggested we look at International.  We didn't think they made that class truck but they had entered that market when GM stopped.  Went and looked at IH TerraStar. Hood tips forward. Everything is in sight and accessible.  Easy to check oil, change filters, etc.  Sold.

[bgavin]

All the above... is why I keep driving my 1991 Toyota Truck.
Easy to service.
Few items require service.

And.. it doesn't have the $87,500 price tag I saw in the window of a brand new big Ford on the lot a few weeks back.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

I’ve been looking at diesel 3/4 and 1 tons. I’ve concluded buying any of them have built in catastrophic failure risk with 5 figure repair bills to be expected. The DEF systems are one thing all could do without.

Fords are engineering, maintenance and mechanical nightmares. Every local diesel shop here is backed up

4-6 weeks with 3-4 dozen trucks setting outside, 90% or better are F250/350 Powerstokes from 6.3-6.0-6.4 and the latest 6.7. The remainder are ragged out Dodges pickups or old GMC/Chevy bucket/utility trucks with the old 6.whatever Detroit diesels.

 

The Ram Cummins is robust but the rest of the truck was designed by either Roper or Amana, and the cab and bed has to be built with their left over appliance parts. Then Ram sticks it to you with the Mopar branded parts. My cousin, a Dodge mechanic, buys his engine parts from Cummins rather than Mopar to save money. Go figure.

 

Chevy/Gmc gives you comfort and ride quality and sensible power, plus there is the throw-away engine design, but I have never known a Duramax owner that was worried about paying the inflated premium for the truck, or keeping the truck long enough for a rebuild.

 

I’m buying a gas burner 3/4 ton in the future. Doubtful a Ford, but keeping my 01 F250 gas burner 

 

 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I got you all beat. Ford's V-6 which goes into 6 or 7 models has this really ingenious engineering solution. The water pump is inside the timing chain cover. Run by the timing chain. Boy I bet you're thinking that replacing the water pump is expensive! Not really because when the seal on the shaft goes it fills the engine with water. And we all know oil and water are not a good engine lubricant.

Well sir we can replace the water pump for $2,500. But the replacement engine is going to cost you $8,500!

Seems fair.

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

I’ve been looking at diesel 3/4 and 1 tons. I’ve concluded buying any of them have built in catastrophic failure risk with 5 figure repair bills to be expected. The DEF systems are one thing all could do without.

Fords are engineering, maintenance and mechanical nightmares. Every local diesel shop here is backed up

4-6 weeks with 3-4 dozen trucks setting outside, 90% or better are F250/350 Powerstokes from 6.3-6.0-6.4 and the latest 6.7. The remainder are ragged out Dodges pickups or old GMC/Chevy bucket/utility trucks with the old 6.whatever Detroit diesels.

 

The Ram Cummins is robust but the rest of the truck was designed by either Roper or Amana, and the cab and bed has to be built with their left over appliance parts. Then Ram sticks it to you with the Mopar branded parts. My cousin, a Dodge mechanic, buys his engine parts from Cummins rather than Mopar to save money. Go figure.

 

Chevy/Gmc gives you comfort and ride quality and sensible power, plus there is the throw-away engine design, but I have never known a Duramax owner that was worried about paying the inflated premium for the truck, or keeping the truck long enough for a rebuild.

 

I’m buying a gas burner 3/4 ton in the future. Doubtful a Ford, but keeping my 01 F250 gas burner 

 

 

I still have my 2000 F250 V10. No nav system No Sirius radio. No talking computer.

[Sixgun Sheridan]

3 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

Swollen nut!  Lug nuts that is.  Replaced all of them on our F150. Got a Edge so I should be pro-active and buy some aftermarket SST to have ready. 

 

 

 

 I used to have a Dodge Neon with similar lug nuts. The outside piece was just a chrome cover that was glued on to the actual lug nut underneath. Well one day I had a flat tire, and lo and behold one of those covers had flown off at some point leaving a nut that was too small for the lug wrench to engage. I had to walk to the closest auto parts store so I could buy a cheap socket set just so I could take the $%@&! tire off.

[Warden Callaway]

Mary had to have an Ford Explorer when they came. I jokingly agreed to a 90,000 mile warning when we bought it.  Within a month, the transmission went out.  Then driving home from work, the engine started knocking.  Towed to Ford.  The head gasket has sprung a leak into the oil, clogging the oil pick up screen.  While in shop, the mechanic found our extended warranty that I had forgotten about.  It was at something like 87,000 miles so only cost a new fan belt and plugs.  The transmission went out two more times. The third them left Mary stranded. That's when she fell out of love with it.

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Fix

Or

Replace

Daily

 

or...

 

Found

On

Road

Dead

 

Toyota:

 

Too Often Yankees Overprice This Automobile

[Subdeacon Joe]

To change the in-cabin air filter on a Nissan Leaf you have to pull out the glove box.  

[Cypress Sun]

4 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

To change the in-cabin air filter on a Nissan Leaf you have to pull out the glove box.  

 

So, if the filter doesn't fit..you must acquit.

 

Actually, many vehicles cabin air filter is behind the glove box.

[Warden Callaway]

Cab air filter on International Terrastar.

 

 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

7 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

To change the in-cabin air filter on a Nissan Leaf you have to pull out the glove box.  

Same thing on my RAM truck 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

For you Ford F-*50 folks, you ain't seen nuttin'.  Wait 'til your heater core decides to leak.  Plan on a minimum of  $1200 to $1400 to have it done, or a long day (or more) if you do it yourself.  

 

Spark plugs are fun, too.     

[Sedalia Dave]

15 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

Buy Toyota. Best truck on the road besides Peterbuilt.

 

 I owned an 05 Sequoia. One of the A.I.R valves started acting up. $200.00 part that cost $4500 to replace because it was located in the valley under the air intake. Entire top of the engine had to be removed to replace it. 

same engine in the Tundra but the valves were accessible as they were mounted on the firewall. Why they made the inaccessible on the Sequoia still baffles me. 
 

Did a few ut tricks to get it working then promptly traded for a GMC 2500

[bgavin]

My good friend services all our Toyotas, and I service all his shop computers.
As such, I'm on close friendly terms with his mechanics.

I asked about replacing my 1991 Toyota Truck with a new Tacoma.
I don't like automatics, but they had some discouraging words for the 6-speed manual.

Toyota is using cheap clutches now, and when they blow, they grenade and destroy the bell housing.
In their infinite stupidity, Toyota integrated the housing with the transmission case as a single casting.
This means a blown clutch now entails an entire strip and replacement of the transmission as well.

I plan to keep my 1991.
BTW, I was a factory certified NIASE Toyota tech waay back in the day, which is why Toyota is all we drive today.

[Pat Riot]

It’s all a conspiracy to get you to buy Tesla cars. 

[PowderRiverCowboy]

As someone that worked in Dealerships for years , Your first mistake was Purchasing a extended warranty on the showroom new Truck with a bumper to bumper warranty . They dont call it the Back end in a dealer for nothing
Say you buy said truck 60k at 2.8 % interest (they got you bought at 2.5 but make another.3 for dealer)

You truck has say a 3 year 36 mile warranty B To B  and a 5-60 powertrain (engine trans rearend ect)

you buy a Ext Wty for 5 years and 80k miles  for 3500 bucks financed at that 2.8 % 

You just paid 3500 plus interest for 20 k miles if warranty 

Always wait until wty expires to purchase 

 

[J.D. Daily]

15 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

For you Ford F-*50 folks, you ain't seen nuttin'.  Wait 'til your heater core decides to leak.  Plan on a minimum of  $1200 to $1400 to have it done, or a long day (or more) if you do it yourself.  

 

Spark plugs are fun, too.     

That is why you follow the mfg's recommendation on changing coolant & using spec's coolant.  If it isn't premix make sure you use water that meets harness spec.  There is so much aluminum in engines and cooling systems today that cooling system is not robust.  I..E. corrodes easily.

P.S.  The last robust Powerstroke is the 7.3.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

5 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

That is why you follow the mfg's recommendation on changing coolant & using spec's coolant.  If it isn't premix make sure you use water that meets harness spec.  There is so much aluminum in engines and cooling systems today that cooling system is not robust.  I..E. corrodes easily.

P.S.  The last robust Powerstroke is the 7.3.

 

Yup.  And if you mix your own, be sure to use the appropriate coolant for that specific vehicle and distilled  or de-ionized water only.  NO tap water....  

 

OR follow Jay Leno's lead and use a waterless coolant (Evans) at over $50/gallon.