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Reduced .45-70 load using H4198  or IMR4198


Quiet Burp

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On edit...

 

I just saw your comment about Trailboss. Apologies. (Not wearing my readers, ugh. )

 

It's not the powder you asked about but I've shot really nice "reduced" 45-70 405 grain loads with 13 grains of Trailboss. So, IF you have Trailboss that's an option.

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H4895 will allow you to reach that velocity with a 405 gr Cast bullet. 

 

Read this from Hodgdons website. It is located under Resources/Reference Data

 

Found Hodgdon's Cowboy Action load data from 2002. Go to page 8. It will get you close.

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I use H4198 in both 38-55 and 45-70. I've found it very consistent and super easy to meter. Now these are my cowboy long range loads which are light and they are both Hi-Walls. Also  I'm going off the top of my head remembering, but I can confirm them tonight when I get home from work. My CAS recipes for them are

 

38-55, 245gn RNFP with 23 gns 4198. I don't remember the FPS but It's a great CAS load and is a laser out to 300yds and still very good out to about 400-500yds on steel. 

 

45-70, 440gn RNFP with 38.5gns 4198. This is great at 300 yards but I rarely shoot the 45-70 anymore. 

 

Also H4198 and IMR4198 are similar but they ARE NOT the same. I missordered one time and got the IMR. I loaded it the and and there was a very noticeable difference.  I traded the IMR off and repurchased the Hodgdon. 

 

JEL

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1 hour ago, John E. Law said:

Also H4198 and IMR4198 are similar but they ARE NOT the same. I missordered one time and got the IMR. I loaded it the and and there was a very noticeable difference.  I traded the IMR off and repurchased the Hodgdon. 

 

^^^^THIS ^^^^

 

This is true for all Hodgdon powders where there is both an H and an IMR version

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4 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Give Unique a try

I figured Lumpy would chime in! I think he puts Unique on his eggs instead of pepper!

 

14.2 grains Unique with a 330-405 cast Bullet makes a very nice load. 

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A 300 to 350 grain lead bullet.  Heavier bullets just kick more, and at 1100 FPS, I'm sure you are not trying to make a long-range (300 yard plus) load.  Up to 300 yards, you can have lots of fun with the light (for 45-70) slugs.

 

Best groups for me with 45-70 usually come when I use 2400.   And pretty easy to get down to 1100 FPS, around 16 grains.

 

If you are dead set on IMR 4198, then 25 grains under that light-ish bullet.  You will see you need a lot more powder with the "4198 type" rifle powders.

 

Most of my 45-70 guns will group better at 1250 or 1300 FPS than they do at 1100 FPS.   Just a hint.

 

good luck, GJ

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4 hours ago, Hoss said:

I figured Lumpy would chime in! I think he puts Unique on his eggs instead of pepper!

 

14.2 grains Unique with a 330-405 cast Bullet makes a very nice load. 

Goes on my salads too :lol:

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2 hours ago, Quiet Burp said:

For the Pat Garret match, the club wants the rifle loads to be below 1100fps.

 

OK, so very light rifle loads on steel targets, it sounds like.  Will be tough to make the 4198 powders even burn with that light a load.

 

Unique (12 grains) or Red Dot (11 grains) pistol powders would be where I'd go with THAT light a load.  2400 in a pinch.

 

Read this thread for tested 1100 FPS loads in 45-70.   https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/red-dot-and-45-70.32851/

And several powders tested here:  http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

 

BTW - Club needs to get some AR steel targets!  We shoot full power military rifles, jacketed bullets, on 1/2" AR 500 steel with next to no damage.

 

good luck, GJ

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On 9/12/2022 at 5:42 AM, Quiet Burp said:

I'm after a reduced .45-70 load using H4198  or IMR4198, looking for below 1100fps.

 

Any suggestions for powder weight and projectile weight?

 

(p.s I don't have any and I can't get any Trailboss)

 

When I first started reloading for .45-70, I used H4198.   Using a "trapdoor safe" load, I found it to be very pleasant to shoot in my 1884 Trapdoor rifle, and a painful shoulder thumper with the same load in an 1873 carbine trapdoor and a 20" Winchester 1886.   

And this was minimal load as well, using a 405 grain bullet.


I switched to Trail Boss, but as you pointed out, you can't get that right now.   I'm going to have to find something else to use for that caliber, one that won't hurt to shoot, and that can also be used with 300 grain bullets as well as 405 ones, and of course, Trapdoor Sage.   Any suggestions would be welcome.  :) 

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H4198 (NOT IMR4198) is ADI AR2207 powder bought from Australia and repackaged by Hodgdon (same as Trail Boss for IMR).

 

There are no 2207 loads for 45/70 in their manual that are below 1100fps. 

 

The closest is 1251 fps with a 405 lead cast proj with 27gr of 2207 (H4198).

 

Unique or 5744 may be better options for you?

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