Fort Reno Kid Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Howdy Pards Was at my shooting club today and noticed the pro shop had IMR4198 in stock. Bot a 1lb can. Thru experimenting with various powders I have found it to give excellent results in my 25-20wcf. I use the Lyman 257420 mould which throws a 65 grain gas check bullet when Linotype is used and a bit heavier with range lead/scrap lead blend. I use 7 grains for cowboy matches and 9 grains for silhouette matches. That stretches out the usable life of a can of powder. That 9 grain load and the Lyman bullet will easily take down the rams with authority … on those rare occasions that I actually hit one. Glad to see it in stock as my existing supply was nearly exhausted. Not so glad to see the price but took a deep breath and bot it. Price $57.50 less 8% discount for club members. Suspect I’d pay more at Cabellas and the like so no regrets. Yes, I remember well the “old days” of not that long ago when $30 a can seemed outrageous. After the long windup, let me get to the question. Do any of you Pards use IMR4198 (or its sibling, H4198) for 38-40, 44-40, 44 Special, or 45 Colt with loads that meet SASS velocity requirements? My go-to powders for those cartridges are Unique, Bullseye, and Titegroup. Get great results but wouldn’t mind a backup load with IMR4198 to enhance flexibility. Appreciate your thoughts and any guidance you can offer. Keep the Shiny side up and the dark side down. Adios Fort Reno Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Wow, that powder is expensive! I'm afraid I cannot help you with the IMR4198 powder questions, but I will mention that one of your other go-to powders, Titegroup, is very available right now from a number of sources, and is WAY less expensive. You might consider stocking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Reno Kid Posted September 12, 2022 Author Share Posted September 12, 2022 Hey Abilene, SASS 27489 Concur with your thoughts on Titegroup. An excellent powder and my prime go to for my center fire SASS irons. Again, Unique and Bullseye are stalwart backups. The IMR4198 is for 25-20. Have seen it recommended for light cast loads in 30-06 family cartridges but mainly use Unique and SR4759 for those. SR4749 has now been discontinued. Glad I stocked up on it before its discontinuance. Just curious if IMR4198 could have use as a backup or alternate. Adios Fort Reno Kid Keep on the Sunny side, always on the sunny side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 No, 4198 is way too slow to make pistol cartridge loads at low velocities. Not a good candidate for a backup powder. There's lots of pistol and shotgun powders that work for cowboy loads. If you find 700X or Red Dot or Clay dot, all those work great too. And yes, 4759 is (was) great in 30-06 and it's production ended several years ago. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 However, is also good in 45/70. H4198 is the same as ADI's AR2207 and I use that in my 1886 and Sabatti Double Rifle (both 45/70). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Never use rifle powders as a reduced load powder. This is where folks fail to understand the difference between rifle powders/rifle cartridges, pistol powders/pistol cartridges. Unique was the first powder used as a reduced rifle load powder. The 25-20 is a rifle cartridge so IMR4198 should work like a charm when loaded to rifle specs. H4198 is not the same.44-40 chamber pressures using IMR-4198 and H4198: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cZyKKXVyHq9as9uFJiko5yReJ9a-ER32YsENTgJGJs4/edit?fbclid=IwAR1QJUpGOK1QfRgNzk1iF0yUT-aVCmxZ8ZKn3VYqkn9JgIl5-GYdb4s2d1o#gid=1865406066 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 12 hours ago, Fort Reno Kid said: Howdy Pards Was at my shooting club today and noticed the pro shop had IMR4198 in stock. Bot a 1lb can. Thru experimenting with various powders I have found it to give excellent results in my 25-20wcf. I use the Lyman 257420 mould which throws a 65 grain gas check bullet when Linotype is used and a bit heavier with range lead/scrap lead blend. I use 7 grains for cowboy matches and 9 grains for silhouette matches. That stretches out the usable life of a can of powder. That 9 grain load and the Lyman bullet will easily take down the rams with authority … on those rare occasions that I actually hit one. Glad to see it in stock as my existing supply was nearly exhausted. Not so glad to see the price but took a deep breath and bot it. Price $57.50 less 8% discount for club members. Suspect I’d pay more at Cabellas and the like so no regrets. Yes, I remember well the “old days” of not that long ago when $30 a can seemed outrageous. After the long windup, let me get to the question. Do any of you Pards use IMR4198 (or its sibling, H4198) for 38-40, 44-40, 44 Special, or 45 Colt with loads that meet SASS velocity requirements? My go-to powders for those cartridges are Unique, Bullseye, and Titegroup. Get great results but wouldn’t mind a backup load with IMR4198 to enhance flexibility. Appreciate your thoughts and any guidance you can offer. Keep the Shiny side up and the dark side down. Adios Fort Reno Kid My supplier sells IMR 4198 for $42.00 a lb and $ 299.00 for 8 lbs and he has it in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 12 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Wow, that powder is expensive! I'm afraid I cannot help you with the IMR4198 powder questions, but I will mention that one of your other go-to powders, Titegroup, is very available right now from a number of sources, and is WAY less expensive. You might consider stocking up. I use TiteGroup for .38’s and it works great! 3.6 grs under a 125 gr bullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Reno Kid Posted September 21, 2022 Author Share Posted September 21, 2022 Howdy Pards Many thanks for the informative replies. My take is to stick with 4198 either IMR or H variety for my 25-20 and stick with “old faithful” pistol powders for my CAS pistols. Agree the two 4198’s are NOT the same but various loading publications I research show them to be very similar. Nope … I don’t interchange one 4198’s powder’s loading data for the other. I stick with published load data. Glad both are available. Yep … it was expensive but it was available after a long dry spell. I take comfort in the fact that 7gr and 9gr loads will go a long way in a 1lb (7,000gr) can of powder. At my tender years … born during FDR administration … it’ll be a race to see which runs out first: me or the can of powder. I hope to give it a run for the money! (LOL … I think!) Keep on my sunny side Adios Fort Reno Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 I use A2 for .38 spec 44-40 44 spec 44 spec level 44 mag 45 ACP 45 AR 45 Colt. I use 4198 for 448 Socom and 45 70 trapdoor level loads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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