Credit Card Tracking

[bgavin]

19 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

California maybe but not the feds! The NICS check does not ask for serial number or even what kind of gun.

I figure it is more than just CA alone.
I would be shocked if the rabid states like NY, CT, MA, MD, IL, NJ and the others don't either keep it publicly, or keep clandestine copies.
Problem is, there is no honest transparency as to which states "truly" retain and publish this information.

So far, 17 states have signed up to ban gas vehicles and follow the CA laws.
This is a general trend that can (and has) spread to other states.
Federally mandated laws can force all states and FFLs to make this data available, should they so choose.
November will be the tell.
 

[Rye Miles #13621]

5 hours ago, bgavin said:

I figure it is more than just CA alone.
I would be shocked if the rabid states like NY, CT, MA, MD, IL, NJ and the others don't either keep it publicly, or keep clandestine copies.
Problem is, there is no honest transparency as to which states "truly" retain and publish this information.

So far, 17 states have signed up to ban gas vehicles and follow the CA laws.
This is a general trend that can (and has) spread to other states.
Federally mandated laws can force all states and FFLs to make this data available, should they so choose.
November will be the tell.
 

Glad Ohio doesn’t keep a registry of all that info. It’s still a free state!

 

You’re right November will tell!

[Buckshot Bob]

Republicans are now contacting the cc companies 

 

[bgavin]

How exciting!
A Republican contact + 35 cents buys cheap coffee.

They will wring their collective hands, pose for interviews, call for "investigations" then sweep it all under the rug.
Business as usual.

[Buckshot Bob]

36 minutes ago, bgavin said:

How exciting!
A Republican contact + 35 cents buys cheap coffee.

They will wring their collective hands, pose for interviews, call for "investigations" then sweep it all under the rug.
Business as usual.

The rinos will but there are a couple that will follow through If the elections go well this fall . You get the government you deserve. In the past they wouldn’t have even done this. Keep getting rid of people like Cheney and McConnell and things will have a chance to get better. 

[bgavin]

Problem is, Big Money attracts Big Corruption.
Gov't is a source of Big Money.
This early voting and vote-by-mail baloney just begs for corruption.
Until we go back to voter ID and in-person voting (never), the corruption will continue.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I wonder how they classify debit card purchases. I use my dc for most of my buying instead of writing checks. Always use my dc for online purchases. Bought a bunch of Bear Creek bullets a month ago and used my dc.

[Buckshot Bob]

It’s a multi pronged attack. Yet another way the federal government is using private business to squeeze the gun industry 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

This guy is a lawyer who specializes in firearms law , his perspective is interesting 

 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

Up here, when I purchased a couple of rifles on my CC, the store just listed them as "Sporting Goods"

(And this was "Let's Ban it! CANADA"

 

[bgavin]

Cash purchases do not negate the 4473 and DROS forms that track your every firearm purchase.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, bgavin said:

Cash purchases do not negate the 4473 and DROS forms that track your every firearm purchase.

The 4473 does not give NICS a serial number or type of gun. They don’t know what you bought other than it was a handgun, long gun or other. How many times do I have to say this? The 4473 stays with the retailer! 

[bgavin]

Yes, the 4473 does not provide specific gun information to the Feds.
The 4473 alerts the NICS to do a background check.

The Feds are then alerted the applicant has requested a background check.
The overwhelming use of NICS is for firearm purchases.
The applicant social security number and residence are then known to the NICS.
After spending 50 years in the data center world, I have every confidence this data is held forever, and indexed by social security number.
I am equally confident a court order to NICS would provide the date and frequency of every single 4473 ever filed by any given social security number.
This is a "tracking" database.

There are 12 states that act as Point of Contact for all firearm transactions.
I very much doubt that CA is unique as the only state of these 12 who collects all this data on the DROS.
Gov't agencies are data hoarders. 

One could argue the gov't is not allowed to collect and store this data because that would be illegal.
It is also illegal for 2 million migrants to storm our borders, but the gov't still encourages it and actively allows it.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-state-lists#:~:text=States that Act as the,POC) for All Firearms Transactions

 

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The 4473 does not give NICS a serial number or type of gun. They don’t know what you bought other than it was a handgun, long gun or other. How many times do I have to say this? The 4473 stays with the retailer! 

The 4473 form stays with the dealer until they retire or close up the store.  The forms are then sent to local law enforcement for storage, at least in NJ.  Nothing is ever destroyed, unless by accident.  Nothing is ever deleted from any date base.  It may not be viewed in an active mode, but it is all archived.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, bgavin said:

Yes, the 4473 does not provide specific gun information to the Feds.
The 4473 alerts the NICS to do a background check.

The Feds are then alerted the applicant has requested a background check.
The overwhelming use of NICS is for firearm purchases.
The applicant social security number and residence are then known to the NICS.
After spending 50 years in the data center world, I have every confidence this data is held forever, and indexed by social security number.
I am equally confident a court order to NICS would provide the date and frequency of every single 4473 ever filed by any given social security number.
This is a "tracking" database.

There are 12 states that act as Point of Contact for all firearm transactions.
I very much doubt that CA is unique as the only state of these 12 who collects all this data on the DROS.
Gov't agencies are data hoarders. 

One could argue the gov't is not allowed to collect and store this data because that would be illegal.
It is also illegal for 2 million migrants to storm our borders, but the gov't still encourages it and actively allows it.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-state-lists#:~:text=States that Act as the,POC) for All Firearms Transactions

 

It is illegal to store the info, the 4473 firms stay with the FFL dealers until they go out of business. As Tex Jones said it then goes to the local law enforcement, I worked at a gun shop/range for 12 years I know that’s what happens. 
NiCS gets rid of the background check info in 30 days. That’s what’s supposed to happen, if you think it doesn’t that’s another issue. 

[bgavin]

And I worked almost 50 years in commercial and gov't data centers.
Since you haven't worked in my environment for any years, you are only guessing about what is "supposed" to happen.
You can have the last word.

[sassnetguy50]

The FFL records are supposed to be delivered to the National Tracing Center in WV, not local law enforcement. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

39 minutes ago, bgavin said:

And I worked almost 50 years in commercial and gov't data centers.
Since you haven't worked in my environment for any years, you are only guessing about what is "supposed" to happen.
You can have the last word.

What I said I learned from the FFL gun shop dealer I worked for who is still in business. 
Since you haven’t worked for a gun dealer you don’t have any idea of what goes on inside the actual FFL holder. I respect what you did for a living but I know what I’m saying is the truth because I witnessed it. 
There was a small gun shop that went out of business close by and one of the workers came to work at the store/range I was at. The 4473 records were given to the local law enforcement who then sent them to the BATF. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

17 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

The FFL records are supposed to be delivered to the National Tracing Center in WV, not local law enforcement. 

You are correct sir. They do go to the BATF when the dealer closes. It first goes to the local law enforcement then they send it to BATF. A little confusion on my part. 

[Buckshot Bob]

4 hours ago, bgavin said:

Cash purchases do not negate the 4473 and DROS forms that track your every firearm purchase.

At this point that’s really got nothing to do with it , it’s about strong arming business and reporting people as a danger to society if they spend too much on what the socialists/communists/fascists determine is too much. if you’ve ever bought a gun where a background check was run on you or have purchased a hunting license , belonged to the NRA , they have a pretty good idea you have guns. That’s all they really need to know, they will find out how many and where they are when they come to visit. I put Gunsmith on my income tax return for over 10 years of my life, I’m tagged. Just about every one who has a firearm is already labeled. This is just a tool they will use to limit and take away your rights. Incremental steps 

[watab kid]

6 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

At this point that’s really got nothing to do with it , it’s about strong arming business and reporting people as a danger to society if they spend too much on what the socialists/communists/fascists determine is too much. if you’ve ever bought a gun where a background check was run on you or have purchased a hunting license , belonged to the NRA , they have a pretty good idea you have guns. That’s all they really need to know, they will find out how many and where they are when they come to visit. I put Gunsmith on my income tax return for over 10 years of my life, I’m tagged. Just about every one who has a firearm is already labeled. This is just a tool they will use to limit and take away your rights. Incremental steps 

i agree with you , and yes there are still exchanges that escape the stupid forms - as they should , we have become way too restrictive in our unconstitional society 

[Rye Miles #13621]

It says Master Card, Visa and Am.Express but not Discover.

does anyone know for sure that  Discover is NOT participating ? I use Discover all the time. 

[sassnetguy50]

8 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

It says Master Card, Visa and Am.Express but not Discover.

does anyone know for sure that  Discover is NOT participating ? I use Discover all the time. 

Discover was listed with the others in opposition of the code last year.  Haven't seen them take a stance either way this year.  

 

https://www.discover.com/credit-cards/contact-us/

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Discover was listed with the others in opposition of the code last year.  Haven't seen them take a stance either way this year.  

 

https://www.discover.com/credit-cards/contact-us/

That link doesn’t tell me anything but to log on, just sayin’

I’m assuming they’re not participating since they’re not mentioned in any of the stories about this BS!! I hope they’re not!!