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The credit card companies have agreed to start tracking gun sales.  So now if you use your credit card for a gun purchase the purchase will be specifically identified as a gun purchase.

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I read about that this AM. I've heard rumors of this being implemented for a while now. I noticed that Discover wasn't one of them.

 

A little more information below.

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/visa-mastercard-amex-categorize-gun-store-sales-separately

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Pay cash from now on for all such purchases.  I have thought that the credit cards can be used to track all of our spending.  Is it worth one percent? Or am I being paranoid?

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Things like this are why the government is pushing for a cashless society. They just keep slowly chipping away. And if you can’t pass the laws you want bully private corporations into doing the dirty work for you. 

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1 minute ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

Cant have cashless society.

How else are the pollyticians gonna hide payoffs????

Best

CR

 

 

They don't hand them cash now...think about it...

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5 minutes ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

Cant have cashless society.

How else are the pollyticians gonna hide payoffs????

Best

CR

 

Crypto, gold, jems , and who says they plan on hiding it in the future. They won’t need to if they have there foot on your neck 

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From what I gather they are adding an ISO code so card companies can break out purchases of firearms and ammunition. It doesn't identify what was bought, only codes the transaction and that isn't entered at the transaction terminal, it's coded by type of business. Gun store? Yep. Sporting goods that also sells firearms/ammunition? Coded.

See the problem yet?

Not all companies seem willing to participate, Discover, Mastercard, Amex seem to be those. So far.

Probably much ado about nothing, but paying cash....LOL.

 

So this is going to do what? They going to generate a list every month on the top sellers in a given area say NYC and then local LEO's will do....what? Go to someone's house and inquire? Consult their database to see if that person has completed the required what-fors for firearms or ammunition?

Yeah, sounds like a solid strategy to me (sarcasm, obviously)

 

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Forgot insider trading, a couple of stock tips can go a long way to getting favorable legislation passed. Don’t need cash for that . And allot of times they don’t even need the tip because they are creating the situation they will exploit for a profit. 

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9 minutes ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

Cant have cashless society.

How else are the pollyticians gonna hide payoffs????

Best

CR

 

Book deals. Yes. Really. It's quite common for those types to do a book deal. Foreign aid is also an excellent way to launder your billions going to well, every rinkydink country that always has their hands out for free bucks. You don't think those career politicians got their millions offa working a 174,000 dollar congress job....didja? LOL

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3 minutes ago, Dubious Don #56333 said:

 

 

So this is going to do what? They going to generate a list every month on the top sellers in a given area say NYC and then local LEO's will do....what? Go to someone's house and inquire? Consult their database to see if that person has completed the required what-fors for firearms or ammunition?

Yeah, sounds like a solid strategy to me (sarcasm, obviously)

 

I think it’s more about seeing who is selling the most firearms and ammunition then maybe sending in say the ATF to do an audit. There’s lots of evil scenarios. They wouldn’t be bothering to do it if they couldn’t use it as a tool to take away your rights. They simply have no reason to want to gather the information unless they plan to do something with it. 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Buckshot Bob said:

I think it’s more about seeing who is selling the most firearms and ammunition then maybe sending in say the ATF to do an audit. There’s lots of evil scenarios. They wouldn’t be bothering to do it if they couldn’t use it as a tool to take away your rights. They simply have no reason to want to gather the information unless they plan to do something with it. 

 

 

 

 

AFT already knows LOL. They have convinced many dealers to use their logging and form software which not only error checks the 4473's but give them access to the bound book/form info real time. I can tell you they have been doing this for decades. They encourage police departments to run a trace on EVERY firearm they log, even the non-crime ones for safekeeping. They have been digitizing their out of business dealer records using the same tech the USPS does to read handwritten addresses and route mail. I worked at a pretty busy gunshop hereabouts and getting a call from the national tracing center was common. As a retired LEO the AFT-BFI-LMNOPQ boyz have lots of nifty little databases they don't normally share with locals. This credit thing will be used as another tool, just like they use multi-sale reports and straw-sellers info to identify the low hanging fruit.

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19 minutes ago, Texas Lizard said:

I wonder how street walkers and ladies of the evening going handle it...Run your card and ask how much time you want...

 

Texas Lizard

Imagine they will have their own code . Maybe that’s one of the revenue streams our new irs agents will be after  

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32 minutes ago, Dubious Don #56333 said:

AFT already knows LOL. They have convinced many dealers to use their logging and form software which not only error checks the 4473's but give them access to the bound book/form info real time. I can tell you they have been doing this for decades. They encourage police departments to run a trace on EVERY firearm they log, even the non-crime ones for safekeeping. They have been digitizing their out of business dealer records using the same tech the USPS does to read handwritten addresses and route mail. I worked at a pretty busy gunshop hereabouts and getting a call from the national tracing center was common. As a retired LEO the AFT-BFI-LMNOPQ boyz have lots of nifty little databases they don't normally share with locals. This credit thing will be used as another tool, just like they use multi-sale reports and straw-sellers info to identify the low hanging fruit.

I’ve purchased from plenty of dealers that still don’t use software. And this will also tag the big ammo dealers 

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I have dealt with CC processing and processors for a long time.

This "coding" system has been in place for years - and the processors continually add new codes to further nail down which industries are responsible for more complaints, chargebacks and refunds.

 

Big box has a code, pharmacies have a code, fast food has a code, gas stations have a code; every industry that can be easily sorted is coded to differentiate it from another.

The CC companies use these differentiation to determine which industries have minimal issues (and maximize processing profits {if the call center isn't dealing with complaints or issues - they make more money}).

 

This coding is NOT nor could it be item specific (it is based upon the code assigned per the processing contract) - a firearm/ ammo purchase from Wal Mart (I imagine Wal Mart has their own code - but if not, is coded as multi line in person retailer) will be coded differently than a purchase from a Big 5 (multi line sporting goods) and coded differently again from a purchase from a LGS (almost always going to be firearm related).

An online retailer would be coded differently yet again.

 

Our vacation sales business is coded as travel AND we pay higher processor rates because of our coding (travel sales entails a high level of chargebacks and buyers remorse) - we could claim to be a different type business but that can result in loss of processing privileges (and falsifying can result in being placed on a processor blacklist). 

 

As to the comment earlier about drug dealers and ladies of the evening; they are certainly not limited to cash - a Square CC swiper plugs directly into a smart phone and an account is three minutes to complete to start processing ("independent speciality retailer" - they wouldn't want to get too specific as certain items are "off limits" to processing with Square).

Costs about 25 - 45 cents and 3.5 percent per transaction (funds deposited same or next day).

 

This new specific firearms retailer CC coding "may" result in some banks dropping firearms related retailers (same as some banks no longer providing banking or loans for firearms companies or retailers {as is in place now for some}) but there will always be someone else willing to step up and absorb that business.

 

Do not fall into "the sky is falling" narrative - it is certainly another attempt to try to exert force on financials but as in the past - it will be much ado about nothing.

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I really don’t care. What are the CC companies going to do, report your purchase to the government? The government that just got your NICS request?

 

Life’s too short to worry about this s***!

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35 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I really don’t care. What are the CC companies going to do, report your purchase to the government? The government that just got your NICS request?

 

Life’s too short to worry about this s***!

Just to clarify - coding is not about YOUR purchases - coding is about the retailers access/ cost to CC processing services.

 

And tracking of how many dollars a given code category brings in or costs.

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31 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Just to clarify - coding is not about YOUR purchases - coding is about the retailers access/ cost to CC processing services.

 

And tracking of how many dollars a given code category brings in or costs.

Thank you. 

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Just so everyone is clear the NICS check does not get the serial number or the specific firearm you purchased. They only know that it’s a handgun, long gun or Other. The serial number and name of gun stays with the gun shop. The government does not know exactly what you bought. 
If it’s stolen and used in a crime the ATF can come in and check the gun stores record if it traces back to them as the point of sale. 

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1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I really don’t care. What are the CC companies going to do, report your purchase to the government? The government that just got your NICS request?

 

Life’s too short to worry about this s***!

I honestly think this is more about screwing with the retailers than any individual. 
Gunshops and firearms manufacturers already have financing problems, some banks just won’t deal with them, the Obama administration worked very hard to get allot of the financial industry to view the firearms industry in the same manner they view the porn industry. 

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40 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

 

 

And again this is exactly what I stated before.  The coding is assigned by industry NOT by product purchased.

 

Who this will impact are firearms distributors and gunshops who will be coded specifically as firearms retailers and will end up assigned a high risk designation which will in turn raise the cost of utilizing credit. (high risk designations can raise fees from 2 or 3 percent to 25 - 30 points)

 

These higher costs will be pased on to the card acceptor (the merchant) in fees/ withholdings from bank deposits or even be used to make it prohibitive to accept credit at all - no retailer can eat 25% being withheld from their bank remits without passing that on.

 

And a fair number of customers cannot simply say, "Fine, Ill pay cash" as they use (as a lot of us do) the credit card to finance a given purchase over time that they may not have the immediate liquidity to purchase.

 

Will this "kill" firearms retailers?

No - other forms of CC card processing will arise and options will grow along with a concentrated focus on cash and alternative financing (crypto comes immediately to mind). 

 

But there will be impact and that is ultimately the goal; disrupt large sellers and big boxes by public pressure (Wal Mart dropping certain ammos and firearms platforms, Dicks dropping out completely) and disrupting smaller sellers and online sales by pricing them out of the market.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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On 9/11/2022 at 3:57 PM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I really don’t care. What are the CC companies going to do, report your purchase to the government? The government that just got your NICS request?

 

Life’s too short to worry about this s***!

 

FDC8EFF0-8AA1-42EE-AEF2-07D768552335.jpeg

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I use a credit card for every purchase, because it offers me protection from scams.
Many vendors charge me an additional 3% because they have to pay that 3% to the credit card carrier.

I once did an eCheck with Bud's Gun Shop just to save that 3%.
This delayed my purchase by some 11 business days.
Not worth it.

Here in CA, every 4473 and dealer record of sale (DROS) is put into an online database for law enforcement.
It is available 24x7, and forever.

Anybody who makes a purchase through an FFL has all this information recorded.
If you believe it is not kept in perpetuity, I have a bridge to sell you.

-------------------
Firearm DROS
-------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP'
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Firearm Safety Course number
• Make
• Model
• Caliber(s)
• Serial Number
• Other Number
• Type
• Category
• Color
• Barrel Length
• Frame/Receiver Only
• New or Used
• FSD Compliance
• Material
• Comment

--------------------------
Ammunition DROS
--------------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Caliber
• Condition
• Delivered By
• Delivery Date/Time
• Eligibility Check DROS Number
• Make
• Quantity
• * Bullet Type
• * Bullet Weight
• * Casing
• * Cost/Round
• * Muzzle Energy
• * Muzzle Velocity
• * Primer Type
• * Usage Type

  * Not currently tracked

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/11/2022 at 7:37 PM, Buckshot Bob said:

I honestly think this is more about screwing with the retailers than any individual. 
Gunshops and firearms manufacturers already have financing problems, some banks just won’t deal with them, the Obama administration worked very hard to get allot of the financial industry to view the firearms industry in the same manner they view the porn industry. 

Operation Chokepoint 2.0

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2 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I use a credit card for every purchase, because it offers me protection from scams.
Many vendors charge me an additional 3% because they have to pay that 3% to the credit card carrier.

I once did an eCheck with Bud's Gun Shop just to save that 3%.
This delayed my purchase by some 11 business days.
Not worth it.

Here in CA, every 4473 and dealer record of sale (DROS) is put into an online database for law enforcement.
It is available 24x7, and forever.

Anybody who makes a purchase through an FFL has all this information recorded.
If you believe it is not kept in perpetuity, I have a bridge to sell you.

-------------------
Firearm DROS
-------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP'
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Firearm Safety Course number
• Make
• Model
• Caliber(s)
• Serial Number
• Other Number
• Type
• Category
• Color
• Barrel Length
• Frame/Receiver Only
• New or Used
• FSD Compliance
• Material
• Comment

--------------------------
Ammunition DROS
--------------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Caliber
• Condition
• Delivered By
• Delivery Date/Time
• Eligibility Check DROS Number
• Make
• Quantity
• * Bullet Type
• * Bullet Weight
• * Casing
• * Cost/Round
• * Muzzle Energy
• * Muzzle Velocity
• * Primer Type
• * Usage Type

  * Not currently tracked

 

 

 

 

 

Ammo is not tracked in most states . And this isn’t really about individuals directly. At this point. This information will be used to strong arm retailers. Through financing and being considered “socially responsible” and government pressure of impending legislation. They cant bully the retailers until the press has the numbers to publish to stir the pot of public outrage. By making it a pia for big retailers to sell guns and ammo . There’s not allot of profit margin there compared to many items so they can be easily discouraged from selling guns &ammo and using the shelf space for something with a higher margin. The smaller gunshops can be hurt through limiting financing , antigun legislators have already expressed their displeasure with companies like creedova, financing firearms for people and helping to increase gunshop sales . They are doing this to limit the places individuals have to purchase guns and ammo . To make them even more expensive and a pia to acquire. I just read a article that the ATF has revoked more FFL’s since the Brandon administration was installed than in any other time in the past. Look at the limited retailers for NFA items , and the costs . It’s the same theory. This isn’t about tracking a individual “yet” . It’s about making it harder and more expensive to attain a firearm. 
Just another case of our government manipulating markets to achieve the agenda they want , which is less armed citizens. 
In the future I definitely could see this being used against the individual, purchase about $5 grand of mags and ammo on your visa, and it wouldn’t have to be all at once this could be cumulative, then get reported to some guberment agency under the new red flag laws the federal government is now financially incentivizing the states to pass. Because you now have a arsenal. And are a danger to society. Look at the small numbers of guns & ammo our media considers a arsenal. 
Gun control has always been incremental. I used to think people would revolt if they rushed it too much but the response to Covid over reach has me questioning that. 

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40 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I use a credit card for every purchase, because it offers me protection from scams.
Many vendors charge me an additional 3% because they have to pay that 3% to the credit card carrier.

I once did an eCheck with Bud's Gun Shop just to save that 3%.
This delayed my purchase by some 11 business days.
Not worth it.

Here in CA, every 4473 and dealer record of sale (DROS) is put into an online database for law enforcement.
It is available 24x7, and forever.

Anybody who makes a purchase through an FFL has all this information recorded.
If you believe it is not kept in perpetuity, I have a bridge to sell you.

-------------------
Firearm DROS
-------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP'
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Firearm Safety Course number
• Make
• Model
• Caliber(s)
• Serial Number
• Other Number
• Type
• Category
• Color
• Barrel Length
• Frame/Receiver Only
• New or Used
• FSD Compliance
• Material
• Comment

--------------------------
Ammunition DROS
--------------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Caliber
• Condition
• Delivered By
• Delivery Date/Time
• Eligibility Check DROS Number
• Make
• Quantity
• * Bullet Type
• * Bullet Weight
• * Casing
• * Cost/Round
• * Muzzle Energy
• * Muzzle Velocity
• * Primer Type
• * Usage Type

  * Not currently tracked

 

 

 

 

 

That did not happen everywhere Pre-Biden.  A permit meant the FFL did not have to run a NICS check.  The 4473 had to be kept for 20 years, then could be burned.  A firearm purchased in the last millennium may not have any record anywhere.  

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8 hours ago, bgavin said:

I use a credit card for every purchase, because it offers me protection from scams.
Many vendors charge me an additional 3% because they have to pay that 3% to the credit card carrier.

I once did an eCheck with Bud's Gun Shop just to save that 3%.
This delayed my purchase by some 11 business days.
Not worth it.

Here in CA, every 4473 and dealer record of sale (DROS) is put into an online database for law enforcement.
It is available 24x7, and forever.

Anybody who makes a purchase through an FFL has all this information recorded.
If you believe it is not kept in perpetuity, I have a bridge to sell you.

-------------------
Firearm DROS
-------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP'
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Firearm Safety Course number
• Make
• Model
• Caliber(s)
• Serial Number
• Other Number
• Type
• Category
• Color
• Barrel Length
• Frame/Receiver Only
• New or Used
• FSD Compliance
• Material
• Comment

--------------------------
Ammunition DROS
--------------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Caliber
• Condition
• Delivered By
• Delivery Date/Time
• Eligibility Check DROS Number
• Make
• Quantity
• * Bullet Type
• * Bullet Weight
• * Casing
• * Cost/Round
• * Muzzle Energy
• * Muzzle Velocity
• * Primer Type
• * Usage Type

  * Not currently tracked

 

 

 

 

 

California maybe but not the feds! The NICS check does not ask for serial number or even what kind of gun. They just want to know if it’s a handgun, long gun or other. The 4473 stays with the gun shop until it goes out of business. Trust me I worked in a gun shop part time for 12 years, of course it was in the USA in Ohio not California!! 

Edited by Rye Miles #13621
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