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Trail Boss/Lee Powder Measure: what am I doing wrong?


Fort Reno Kid

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Howdy Pards


I was fortunate enough (lucky enough?) to purchase a couple of cans of Trail Boss  just before the “great shortage” began.

 

I’m primarily a Unique/Bullseye/Titegroup user but wanted to make use of the Trail Boss. Often use the Lee plastic dippers for reloading but didn’t find one for the load weight of TB that I wanted for 45 cowboy shooting.

 

Some research indicated TB should meter through my Lee Powder Measure. I’ve used it for the above mentioned powders and was rewarded with very consistent results.
 

I’ll concede I’m in the slow-learner group but despite best efforts I could not get the measure to throw a consistent load. Big variation. Some of the light throws would barely get the bullet out of the barrel. Some of the heavy throws were skirting the danger zone.

 

The solution? I found a combination of two dippers that threw the desired load. I’ll concede that the process has its danger aspect if an under charge or over charge resulted. Thus, I used the powder scale to verify each charge. 
 

Slow? You bet but safety dictated the process and fortuitously there weren’t a substantial number of cases to reload.

 

Surely I must be missing something or doing something wrong. 

 

Would appreciate any input on how others have solved this issue and/or didn’t experience my level of difficulty.

 

Thanks and Adios 

 

Fort Reno Kid 

 

Keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side.

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You did not state what press you are using but if it is a progressive then there are some solutions to this problem.  If a Dillon 650 or 750 then they have a device that will warn you of a faulty powder drop.  If you are using a turret press then you can get a lockout die that will also tell you if your powder charge is correct.  I am not sure what is available for a single stage press.

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Lee has more than one Powder measure, which one are you using? How much powder are you throwing?

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Kid,

I've never used Trailboss and don't use Lee. But, get a dinner knife with a heavy handle on it and when you throw the lever up, give the bottom of the measure a light tap with the knife handle to settle the powder.  You may get a more consistant load. Just a thought !!

Isom

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Howdy Pards

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

Most of my reloading gear is older in machine years than I am in human years … translation: old. How old? Some of it dates back to when, and even before, the Dallas Cowboys were playoff contenders and Super Bowl participants … yes, that old. Don’t own a progressive press and, considering my tender years, don’t believe I’d last sufficiently long to get good service from it … nor that I’d be able to figure out how to use it. My mantra: if it’s stupid and works then it’s not stupid.

 

That said. I use two Lee presses side by side. One is the “standard” single-stage and the other the large “classic” single-stage for 577/450 and 577 Snider.

 

The powder measure? It’s unmarked and the box (with the instructions I should’ve kept) is long gone. Think it was called the Lee Perfect Powder Measure. It’s free-standing … not attached to a progressive press.

 

Powder loads? For 45, 44, 44/40, and 38/40 my typical cowboy loads are as light as 6 gr of Bullseye/Unique/Titegroup and rarely exceed 8- to 8.5 grains. It meters those powders with ease and accuracy.

 

The press does throw rifle-size doses of slow-burning powders for my 30-06 without any issues.

 

So, the issue is a powder measure that performs admirably with most powders BUT has issues with Trail Boss.

 

Another alternative is to weigh the amount I want and put it in, say, a 380 or 9mm brass, note the level, trim the case down to that level, attach a brass or other non-ferrous wire to it, and use that as a powder dipper.

 

Lots of possibilities so I’m happy for any input from others.

 

Thanks again and a hearty Adios (and Hi-Ho Silver away?)

 

Fort Reno Kid 

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1 hour ago, Fort Reno Kid said:

Some of the light throws would barely get the bullet out of the barrel. Some of the heavy throws were skirting the danger zone.

 

That usually is a good indicator the powder is bridging.  Trailboss is bulkly so it will do that in some measures.  If you only have two cans I would just continue to dip the powder as it is no longer made and for your purposes it is probably not worth buying a new measure.

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I gave up the free standing Lee powder measure like a bad habit.  Use the Lyman reloading trays and the Lee dippers to charge the brass.  You can load 50 at a time and move on to bullet seating/crimp.  That’s what I did when I started on my single stage. Plus after you’ve charged 50 you can eyeball 50 at a time to see if they pass the Sesame Street test.
 

I don’t think there is enough vibration to drop a consistent charge when using the free standing powder measure.  The Lee dippers work fine.

 

if you don’t want to jump to a progressive, I really like and still use my Lee turret press for reloading my BP loads and use the Dillon for smokeless. 

 

Titan Reloading has decent prices and even better customer service.  Check it out there.  

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Trail Boss is low density and flakes are big.  Both contribute to poor metering of that powder in most any measure.

 

You can try taping a fish tank aerator to the hopper of your Lee measure, it often helps with bulky powders because of the vibrations that the motor produces.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

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Remember the old Lyman 55, it had that "knocker" to make sure the powder dropped, and did not bridge on it's way out. 

 

I don't have the LEE measure but I had to expand the drop diameter on some of my measures to get them into the reliable zone. 

 

I'll be using TB again when the supply comes back. I've got a pound left but I've converted to other powders for the time being. I was lucky enough to buy an eight pound keg of 452AA, I use that stuff in everything, almost. I hope that TB is back before all my 452AAis gone. The issue with old powder is that it slowly changes. Just the other day I had to increase my charge and change primers to get it to work. A puzzler, a load that was good, wasn't good anymore. 

 

I'm somewhat with OLG on the hype surrounding TB, it is not as versatile as the hype, It's just like any other powder, it has its niche loads and sometimes it doesn't work that well. The bulky part is good for our game. 4 grains of 452AA in the bottom of a case is a bit hard to see, thank goodness it is a light color. 

 

BB

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8 hours ago, Fort Reno Kid said:

Another alternative is to weigh the amount I want and put it in, say, a 380 or 9mm brass, note the level, trim the case down to that level, attach a brass or other non-ferrous wire to it, and use that as a powder dipper.

 

 

For only 2 bottles of powder this is your best option. 

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Quote

before all my 452AAis gone

 

Winchester WST powder is ALMOST a direct descendant of 452AA.   Have used both, 452 back in the 70s and 80s, and WST since.  Great pistol and 12 gauge powder.  Very fine spherical shape, so it meters in measures exceptionally well.

 

I've heard no projected resumption date for manufacturing Trail Boss.  Hodgdon has kind of hinted "don't even look for it again until at least 2023."

 

good luck, GJ

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8 hours ago, Fort Reno Kid said:

...Another alternative is to weigh the amount I want and put it in, say, a 380 or 9mm brass, note the level, trim the case down to that level, attach a brass or other non-ferrous wire to it, and use that as a powder dipper....

When I have made a dipper from a brass case, instead of trimming the case down, I drop some melted solder into the bottom to reduce the capacity.  

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8 hours ago, Fort Reno Kid said:

The powder measure? It’s unmarked and the box (with the instructions I should’ve kept) is long gone. Think it was called the Lee Perfect Powder Measure. It’s free-standing … not attached to a progressive press.

Lee instructions

 

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/AP1704.pdf

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18 hours ago, Fort Reno Kid said:

The powder measure? It’s unmarked and the box (with the instructions I should’ve kept) is long gone. Think it was called the Lee Perfect Powder Measure. It’s free-standing … not attached to a progressive press.

 

Powder loads? For 45, 44, 44/40, and 38/40 my typical cowboy loads are as light as 6 gr of Bullseye/Unique/Titegroup and rarely exceed 8- to 8.5 grains. It meters those powders with ease and accuracy.

 

The press does throw rifle-size doses of slow-burning powders for my 30-06 without any issues.

 

So, the issue is a powder measure that performs admirably with most powders BUT has issues with Trail Boss.

 

Fort Reno Kid 

I have used both the Lee Perfect Powder Measure (stand a lone) and the Auto disks with Trail Boss with no problems. When using the stand alone, you should have no problems looking into each case after each drop to check powder level. Even so, with powder measures on progressive presses, I always watch the powder charge the case to make sure there are no problems.

A case full of Trail Boss in the 44-40, where the bullet sits on top of the powder charge, will produce about 16,400cup at only 1,250fps. This should be about 9.3gr with a 200gr lead bullet. 

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I've used TB powder with both a Lyman 55 & Hornady LnL powder measures for years and don't have a metering problem. Both give me a contant drop of +/- 1/10 of a grain and that is nothing to be concerned about in this sport.

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I tried TB years ago, loaded 6gr. IIRC in 45C. Used a Dillon SDB and had no issues with consistency. But paying the price of a pound to get 9 oz. and the filth in my Marlin, I moved to Clays and Clay-Dot and have never looked back. Thanks to Scarlett, I now have some Clean shot to try next season.

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